Amount is irrelevant. Any weight means a belt which means one more thing to
worry about and the belt screws up air balance in your drysuit.

Terry, you need to get back to fundamentals here. What is the whole point of
buoyancy? As near as I can tell it is best to be neutral at the bottom in
your standard kit with as little amount of air in your wings as possible.
This way you can always swim up by dropping non essentials like tools.

Another issue is your trim and overall buoyancy as you use up the air in
your tanks. The 104's, as you well know, are ideal for this.

So, Terry, what is the big deal as long as the above goals are accomplished?

   Jim
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:54:37 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, marv <ajmarve@op*.ne*>
> Cc: MHK <mhkane@pr*.ne*>, "Michael J. Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
> techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> 
> How much weight are we talking about here?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>
> To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "marv"<ajmarve@op*.ne*>
> Cc: "MHK"<mhkane@pr*.ne*>, "Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
> techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Date: Tue Aug 28 16:13:40 PDT 2001
> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> 
>> Thanks, Terry but I think I will stick with my 104's. I really don't like
>> weight belts.
>> 
>> Jim
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>> 
>>> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, marv <ajmarve@op*.ne*>
>>> Cc: MHK <mhkane@pr*.ne*>, "Michael J. Blitch"
>>> <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
>>> techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>> Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>>> 
>>>> Also I don't understand what your harping about AL80's all about. If you
>>>> dive with a wetsuit 80's are fine. If you dive with a drysuit the negative
>>>> aspects of steel doubles help your buoyancy. The steel 104's happen to be
>>>> ideal for this purpose.
>>> 
>>> Jim, try the 80's you might be suprised. If you need the extra gas put it in
>>> a
>>> stage. This should cover 99% of the dives you do. You save the big guns for
>>> when you need them in my opinion.
>>> 
>>>> Thirdly I believe in diving the same rig on every dive regardless of the
>>>> depth. 
>>> 
>>> I agree but common sense tells me that I can do this regardless of the
>>> gas/cylinder requirements or logistics.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>
>>> To: "marv"<ajmarve@op*.ne*>, "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>
>>> Cc: "MHK"<mhkane@pr*.ne*>, "Michael J.
>>> Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
>>> techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>> Date: Tue Aug 28 01:48:59 PDT 2001
>>> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>>> 
>>>> Marv-
>>>> 
>>>> First off I am not a cave diver. Second, you did not seem to get my point
>>>> that for wreck diving I consider your air supply to be a tad bit more
>>>> important than scooter battery life. In wreck diving you are given the
>>>> opportunity to change batteries which you don't have in a cave. You are
>>>> comparing apples to oranges.
>>>> 
>>>> Thirdly I believe in diving the same rig on every dive regardless of the
>>>> depth. I don't see the point in wearing different tanks suit the particular
>>>> depths. This is BS.
>>>> 
>>>> Also I don't understand what your harping about AL80's all about. If you
>>>> dive with a wetsuit 80's are fine. If you dive with a drysuit the negative
>>>> aspects of steel doubles help your buoyancy. The steel 104's happen to be
>>>> ideal for this purpose.
>>>> 
>>>> I would like you to please repost where I said that double 80's were
>>>> inferior to steel 104 because they don't carry enough gas. What I may have
>>>> said is that having more gas than you need for a specific dive is not a
>>>> detriment to the dive.
>>>> 
>>>> So please take your weird, ill thought out, disjointed, nonsenceical, out
>>>> of
>>>> context post here and go back to your treadmill, which happens to go the
>>>> same destination as your argument. Nowhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>> 
>>>>> From: marv <ajmarve@op*.ne*>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:11:07 -0400
>>>>> To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
>>>>> Cc: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, MHK <mhkane@pr*.ne*>, "Michael
>>>>> J.
>>>>> Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>>>>> 
>>>>> JIm's thing< and its not just Jim, there is a small group now> is that
>>>>> the only tanks for drysuit is the double 104's. this is despite
>>>>> commentary from George himself that for ocean, you dont need all that
>>>>> gas even in a drysuit and that double 80s should be enuff for most of
>>>>> what one might attempt.< "for ocean the aluminum 80 is the tank of
>>>>> choice">  The rationale seems to be  taught by most of your tek agencies
>>>>> that you can never have enuff gas because "you never know what is going
>>>>> to happen" and people find this more comforting to embrace than the fact
>>>>> that they need to exercise aerobically for diving.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally i would suggest that you plan your dive and dive your plan,
>>>>> altering the plan only in the direction of being conservative during a
>>>>> dive. < i.e. less bottom time>. I would also suggest that if your going
>>>>> to carry a major reserve of one dive parameter<gas> you should have
>>>>> equvalent supply of any other<scooter/light burn>.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally i would suggest that anyone who cant understand why huge tanks
>>>>> and a tiny scooter might not be a good idea should reread the last
>>>>> paragraph of Gavin's chapter and look in the mirror.
>>>>> 
>>>>> marv
>>>>> 
>>>>> ps i wear dbl 80s, drive a mako and set the treadmill on speed 8 at
>>>>> least once a day.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> terry michael wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are we talking about diving thirds here or what? This is a public list
>>>>>> please
>>>>>> explain what you are trying to tell us.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: "marv"<ajmarve@op*.ne*>
>>>>>> To: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>
>>>>>> Cc: "MHK"<mhkane@pr*.ne*>, "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>,
"Michael J.
>>>>>> Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>>> Date: Mon Aug 27 10:37:44 PDT 2001
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> so what are you saying Jim, that you dont plan your dives or dont have
>>>>>>> the discipline to follow that plan ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> you are on the right track with respect to less is best, you just need
>>>>>>> to take it all the way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> marv
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jim Cobb wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Gas=Life. Is that real enough for you?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> From: marv <ajmarve@op*.ne*>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:11:57 -0400
>>>>>>>>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: MHK <mhkane@pr*.ne*>, terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>,
"Michael
>>>>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>>>> Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> and yet you doggedly defend the concept of carrying three times as
>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>> gas as needed for a given dive< see any old dbl 80 vs 104 thread.>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Marv
>>>>>>>>> <keepin' it real, yo>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jim Cobb wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would still like something smaller, don't see the point in carrying
>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>> hours worth of burn time on a dive were your actual scooting time is
>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>> 20 minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>>>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ___________________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___________________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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