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Damn Cobb, when did you take those photos...... You're (is that one right Chris??) as bad as me with that camera....... At 12:57 PM 8/23/01 -0400, Jim Cobb wrote: > From us strokes to you stud Gavin guys, this page ought to drive you crazy; > >http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/Dacor/variations.htm > >Strokin' it in VaBch- > > Jim > >On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 11:44 AM, terry michael wrote: > >>No, it's apples and oranges. But to say on a public forum that you dive >>off-shore charter boats with one and can break it down with a screw >>driver and can get all the parts at the local seven-eleven PADI dive shop >>is misleading and could give people the wrong impression. In truth you >>(as in you) can't even get past the shroud. The Gavin is a balanced work >>of art once it's set-up and not a poor mans jury rigger rental production >>scooter like the Decor. Again it's apples and oranges and maybe a little >>silly to try comparisons..:-) It is possible to set-up the Decor better >>however but mounting yourself on top with a carabineer is not the better >>way in my opinion. The carabineer is stroke sh*t. Thanks for the good >>debate..:-) >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: "Joseph Citelli"<joe@po*.co*> >>To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>, >>"Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com >>Date: Sun Aug 19 22:14:09 PDT 2001 >>Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >> >>>OK - The Mako and Dacor are better than the Gavin. You can't take it apart >>>with a screw driver and I made all this stuff up. I don't own any scooters >>>and I never dive them. I don't know how to fix one and unless you have a >>>degree in mechanical engineering, you could never figure out how to remove a >>>SS screw from aluminum. >>> >>>Now I realize that all of these hi tech things such as screw removal might >>>seem overwhelming to you but it really is not that difficult.....oops! >>>There I go again making stuff up! Excuse me... It can't be done....you are >>>correct. >>> >>>Regards. >>> >>>Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> >>>To: Joseph Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; Jim Cobb >>><cobber@ci*.co*>; Michael J. Blitch <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; >>><techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 10:31 PM >>>Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>> >>> >>>>>Except for the scooter specific parts (Mako) -shrouds etc. - every thing >>>>>else is readily available through normal supply houses. There are no >>>>>"exotic" parts in them and they can be easily disassembled for in the >>>field >>>>>repair wth a screwdriver. >>>> >>>>More bullsh*t, the parts are all stock from other stock DPV parts mostly >>>mako. Next you have to figure exactly what parts you have and then track >>>them down yourself there are no scams or parts catalog available yet. What's >>>not from stock parts is custom and needs to be machined. The screwdriver >>>joke could almost work except that to get the shroud off you'd need a drill >>>press and tap set especially if you're diving in salt water the SS screws >>>mounted into the aluminum that holds it in place are striped. Give it a try >>>big boy let us know how it goes. Good debate thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: "Joseph Citelli"<joe@po*.co*> >>>>To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>, >>>"Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com >>>>Date: Sun Aug 19 21:21:28 PDT 2001 >>>>Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>>> >>>>>Actually, just the opposite is true. (Except for the weight. A Gavin >>>short >>>>>body is about 80 lbs. A Mako is close to that (~70) and I can't speak >>>for >>>>>the Dacor.) >>>>> >>>>>Except for the scooter specific parts (Mako) -shrouds etc. - every thing >>>>>else is readily available through normal supply houses. There are no >>>>>"exotic" parts in them and they can be easily disassembled for in the >>>field >>>>>repair wth a screwdriver. >>>>> >>>>>As far as hassel on a charter, the footprint is the shroud diameter. >>>>>Excepting the Farrallon, they are all about the same. I have taken mine >>>to >>>>>the Yucatan by plane as well as to the Doria. I use it routinely on >>>>>charters from a 6 pak to a 12 passenger dive boat. It is no more problem >>>to >>>>>carry or transport than any other scooter and is far more reliable and >>>depth >>>>>tolerant. >>>>> >>>>>Take apart a Mako and take apart a Gavin. You will barely have the >>>>>batteries out of the Mako and the Gavin will be field stripped and >>>>>reassembled. >>>>> >>>>>Other than that, we agree. :-))) >>>>> >>>>>Joe >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> >>>>>To: Joe <joe@po*.co*>; Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>; >>>Michael >>>>>J. Blitch <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:36 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>Properly maintained, these scooters are bullet proof and can go >>>anywhere. >>>>>> >>>>>>Joe, the canister scooters are a hell of a lot heavier and bigger thus >>>>>much more hassle on a charter. They are not bullet proof and are more >>>>>expensive to repair and more difficult to find parts for. The rest of >>>your >>>>>post I agree with however..:-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: "Joe"<joe@po*.co*> >>>>>>To: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>, "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, >>>>>"Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com >>>>>>Date: Wed Aug 22 19:17:52 PDT 2001 >>>>>>Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>>>>> >>>>>>>>but I simply cannot imagine stepping off a dive boat with a 5' drop >>>with >>>>>>>stages >and a friggin Gavin held out in front of me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Why? I do it all the time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You hold it by the strap under the nose cone, lift it a bit, step off >>>the >>>>>>>boat and pull the it foward and down. The scooter goes nose first >>>into >>>>>the >>>>>>>water and winds up under you. Since it is tethered to you already, >>>you >>>>>>>release the strap when you hit the water, grab the handle and go all >>>in >>>>>one >>>>>>>fluid motion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yes, the shroud clip is unabashed strokery, no doubt about it, but >>>it >>>>>>>works well >for us. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Am I detecting a bit of personal preference here? :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>A neutrally balanced scooter on a tow rope of proper length is the way >>>to >>>>>>>go. On deco or in a cave, wreck or anywhere else the scooter is just >>>>>>>"there" but out of your way. You simply place it where you want and >>>it >>>>>>>pretty much stays put until you move. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>After trying both systems I am not satisfied with the Gavin/tow >>>rope... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Most likely you did not have the proper length tow rope. It needs to >>>be >>>>>>>adjusted for each persons arm length. Even an inch out of position >>>will >>>>>>>affect the operation of the scooter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Properly maintained, these scooters are bullet proof and can go >>>anywhere. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Joe >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> >>>>>>>To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>; Michael J. Blitch >>>>>>><mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:40 AM >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yes, I've tried a Gavin. They are excellent scooters, they are big, >>>>>heavy >>>>>>>>and built like a tank. Yes they pull like a freight train and yes >>>the >>>>>most >>>>>>>>efficient way to rig is using the tow rope setup. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The question for you have *you* tried it both ways? Have you tried a >>>>>>>shroud >>>>>>>>clip D/A? Yes, the shroud clip is unabashed strokery, no doubt about >>>>>it, >>>>>>>but >>>>>>>>it works well for us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>After trying both systems I am not satisfied with the Gavin/tow rope >>>>>>>>solution for techdiving. Any more than I would take a rebreather >>>wreck >>>>>>>>diving. The Gavin is ideal for cavers and a nice machine but it is >>>too >>>>>>>heavy >>>>>>>>to deal with for our style of diving, IMHO. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Now maybe I'm an old guy with a bad back, but I simply cannot >>>imagine >>>>>>>>stepping off a dive boat with a 5' drop with stages and a friggin >>>Gavin >>>>>>>held >>>>>>>>out in front of me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> >>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:27:59 -0700 (PDT) >>>>>>>>>To: "Michael J. Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, >>>>>>>techdiver@aquanaut.com >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I agree, in my opinion mounting a carabineer to ride on top of the >>>>>Decor >>>>>>>dpv >>>>>>>>>is the silliest strokery I've seen come out of this list in a long >>>>>time. >>>>>>>>>Simply burn a couple of holes in the shroud and then tie in a bolt >>>>>snap. >>>>>>>Then >>>>>>>>>position yourself behind and just above the prop wash. >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*> >>>>>>>>>To: techdiver@aquanaut.com >>>>>>>>>Date: Tue Aug 21 06:12:01 PDT 2001 >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:08:18 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Around here we usually dive >>>>>>>>>>>with the boat attached to the wreck with varying amounts of >>>current >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>>>don't have the time to screw around on the surface. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Around here we dive with usually nothing but a strong current and >>>>>have >>>>>>>>>>less time to dick around than you do. You have time to fumble >>>with >>>>>>>>>>stuff and then leisurely follow the anchor. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>While the tow harness seen on cave expeditionary scooters are >>>great >>>>>>>for the >>>>>>>>>>>long haul they are a pain for this use. With the scooter clipped >>>>>off >>>>>>>at the >>>>>>>>>>>shroud you have instant access to the unit without having to >>>>>position >>>>>>>it >>>>>>>>>>>first. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>How often have you tried this? We did 4 drops to 250+ this >>>weekend >>>>>>>>>>several last weekend, and dozens of others over the past few >>>months. >>>>>>>>>>The scooters that we use are Gavins and the cord length is enough >>>to >>>>>>>>>>have it at arms length. When exiting the boat, it is clipped in >>>and >>>>>>>>>>being held by one hand. Hit the water and it is just as >>>immediately >>>>>>>>>>available. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>With a D/A it can actually pull you sideways from the waist if >>>you >>>>>>>>>>>want. In this case the forward mounted handles of the Dacor are >>>an >>>>>>>asset. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This leads to the question of ....why? Doing something like this >>>is >>>>>>>>>>going to strain the motor and start killing the batteries. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>But if you are doing a long cruise, like in a cave, the tow line >>>is >>>>>>>superior >>>>>>>>>>>for comfort, but this is usually not the case with wreckers. We >>>use >>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>>scooter in short bursts to hop around to different parts of the >>>>>wreck. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The tow cord is just as much an asset as anything else, if not >>>more. >>>>>>>>>>When you don't need the scooter and want to be close to the >>>bottom >>>>>>>>>>(i.e. looking for artifacts or lobster) then you do not want them >>>>>damn >>>>>>>>>>thing under you continuously dragging. My scooter is just barely >>>>>>>>>>positive in saltwater and I will just move it to the side until >>>it >>>>>is >>>>>>>>>>needed. I want something that is not going to be in the way but >>>>>>>>>>provides the burn time and depth I need. When you start keeping >>>it >>>>>in >>>>>>>>>>close, you are going to start getting all kinds of crap caught in >>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>props, even with the damn guard. Just ask JT. Keeping the tow >>>cord >>>>>too >>>>>>>>>>short also ads a hell of a lot more drag. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>The single battery of A/D makes it lightweight enough to be an >>>>>>>attached part >>>>>>>>>>>of your gear. It's no problem to change batteries between dives, >>>in >>>>>>>fact >>>>>>>>>>>that is preferable to carrying 2 or more batteries at once, >>>having >>>>>to >>>>>>>hump >>>>>>>>>>>these batteries on and off the dive boat. As far as pulling >>>power I >>>>>>>have no >>>>>>>>>>>problem hauling all my stuff plus another tech diver behind me >>>with >>>>>an >>>>>>>A/D, >>>>>>>>>>>and have done it several times. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Single battery of the Gavin short tube provides me with more than >>>an >>>>>>>>>>hours burn time. You're getting too short a burn time since >>>you're >>>>>>>>>>drawing a hell of a lot more amps literally dragging yourself >>>>>around. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Don't short change yourself. The short cords and short battery >>>life >>>>>>>>>>becomes too much of a liability for anything more serious than 60 >>>>>foot >>>>>>>>>>reef dives. When doing that dive, I'll pull out a Torpedo or my >>>old >>>>>>>>>>Mako. Anything else, then you need what works. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord: >>>>>>>>>>222: I reserve the right to execute any henchmen who appear to >>>be a >>>>>>>little >>>>>>>>>>too intelligent, powerful, or devious. However if I do so, I will >>>>>not >>>>>>>at some >>>>>>>>>>subsequent point shout "Why am I surrounded by these incompetent >>>>>>>fools?!" >>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >>>>>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>>>>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >>>>>>>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>___________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>GO.com Mail >>>>>>>>>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >>>>>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>>>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >>>>>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >>>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >>>>>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>___________________________________________________ >>>>>>GO.com Mail >>>>>>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>___________________________________________________ >>>>GO.com Mail >>>>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >>>> >> >> >>___________________________________________________ >>GO.com Mail >>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >> >> >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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