OK - The Mako and Dacor are better than the Gavin.  You can't take it apart
with a screw driver and I made all this stuff up.  I don't own any scooters
and I never dive them.  I don't know how to fix one and unless you have a
degree in mechanical engineering, you could never figure out how to remove a
SS screw from aluminum.

Now I realize that all of these hi tech things such as screw removal might
seem overwhelming to you but it really is not that difficult.....oops!
There I go again making stuff up!  Excuse me... It can't be done....you are
correct.

Regards.

Joe




----- Original Message -----
From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
To: Joseph Citelli <joe@po*.co*>; Jim Cobb
<cobber@ci*.co*>; Michael J. Blitch <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>;
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor


> >Except for the scooter specific parts (Mako) -shrouds etc. - every thing
> >else is readily available through normal supply houses.  There are no
> >"exotic" parts in them and they can be easily disassembled for in the
field
> >repair wth a screwdriver.
>
> More bullsh*t, the parts are all stock from other stock DPV parts mostly
mako. Next you have to figure exactly what parts you have and then track
them down yourself there are no scams or parts catalog available yet. What's
not from stock parts is custom and needs to be machined. The screwdriver
joke could almost work except that to get the shroud off you'd need a drill
press and tap set especially if you're diving in salt water the SS screws
mounted into the aluminum that holds it in place are striped. Give it a try
big boy let us know how it goes. Good debate thanks.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joseph Citelli"<joe@po*.co*>
> To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>,
"Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Date: Sun Aug 19 21:21:28 PDT 2001
> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>
> >Actually, just the opposite is true.  (Except for the weight.  A Gavin
short
> >body is about 80 lbs.  A Mako is close to that (~70) and I can't speak
for
> >the Dacor.)
> >
> >Except for the scooter specific parts (Mako) -shrouds etc. - every thing
> >else is readily available through normal supply houses.  There are no
> >"exotic" parts in them and they can be easily disassembled for in the
field
> >repair wth a screwdriver.
> >
> >As far as hassel on a charter, the footprint is the shroud diameter.
> >Excepting the Farrallon, they are all about the same.  I have taken mine
to
> >the Yucatan by  plane as well as to the Doria.  I use it routinely on
> >charters from a 6 pak to a 12 passenger dive boat.  It is no more problem
to
> >carry or transport than any other scooter and is far more reliable and
depth
> >tolerant.
> >
> >Take apart a Mako and take apart a Gavin.  You will barely have the
> >batteries out of the Mako and the Gavin will be field stripped and
> >reassembled.
> >
> >Other than that, we agree.  :-)))
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> >To: Joe <joe@po*.co*>; Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>;
Michael
> >J. Blitch <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:36 PM
> >Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >
> >
> >> >Properly maintained, these scooters are bullet proof and can go
anywhere.
> >>
> >> Joe, the canister scooters are a hell of a lot heavier and bigger thus
> >much more hassle on a charter. They are not bullet proof and are more
> >expensive to repair and more difficult to find parts for. The rest of
your
> >post I agree with however..:-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: "Joe"<joe@po*.co*>
> >> To: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>, "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>,
> >"Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> Date: Wed Aug 22 19:17:52 PDT 2001
> >> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >>
> >> >>but I simply cannot imagine stepping off a dive boat with a 5' drop
with
> >> >stages >and a friggin Gavin held out in front of me.
> >> >
> >> >Why?  I do it all the time.
> >> >
> >> >You hold it by the strap under the nose cone, lift it a bit, step off
the
> >> >boat and pull the it foward and down.  The scooter goes nose first
into
> >the
> >> >water and winds up under you.  Since it is tethered to you already,
you
> >> >release the strap when you hit the water, grab the handle and go all
in
> >one
> >> >fluid motion.
> >> >
> >> >> Yes, the shroud clip is unabashed strokery, no doubt about it, but
it
> >> >works well >for us.
> >> >
> >> >Am I detecting a bit of personal preference here?  :-)
> >> >
> >> >A neutrally balanced scooter on a tow rope of proper length is the way
to
> >> >go.  On deco or in a cave, wreck or anywhere else the scooter is just
> >> >"there" but out of your way.  You simply place it where you want and
it
> >> >pretty much stays put until you move.
> >> >
> >> >> After trying both systems I am not satisfied with the Gavin/tow
rope...
> >> >
> >> >Most likely you did not have the proper length tow rope.  It needs to
be
> >> >adjusted for each persons arm length.  Even an inch out of position
will
> >> >affect the operation of the scooter.
> >> >
> >> >Properly maintained, these scooters are bullet proof and can go
anywhere.
> >> >
> >> >Joe
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >> >To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>; Michael J. Blitch
> >> ><mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:40 AM
> >> >Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Yes, I've tried a Gavin. They are excellent scooters, they are big,
> >heavy
> >> >> and built like a tank. Yes they pull like a freight train and yes
the
> >most
> >> >> efficient way to rig is using the tow rope setup.
> >> >>
> >> >> The question for you have *you* tried it both ways? Have you tried a
> >> >shroud
> >> >> clip D/A? Yes, the shroud clip is unabashed strokery, no doubt about
> >it,
> >> >but
> >> >> it works well for us.
> >> >>
> >> >> After trying both systems I am not satisfied with the Gavin/tow rope
> >> >> solution for techdiving. Any more than I would take a rebreather
wreck
> >> >> diving. The Gavin is ideal for cavers and a nice machine but it is
too
> >> >heavy
> >> >> to deal with for our style of diving, IMHO.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now maybe I'm an old guy with a bad back, but I simply cannot
imagine
> >> >> stepping off a dive boat with a 5' drop with stages and a friggin
Gavin
> >> >held
> >> >> out in front of me.
> >> >>
> >> >>    Jim
> >> >>
> >> >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >> >>
> >> >> > From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> >> >> > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
> >> >> > To: "Michael J. Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
> >> >techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I agree, in my opinion mounting a carabineer to ride on top of the
> >Decor
> >> >dpv
> >> >> > is the silliest strokery I've seen come out of this list in a long
> >time.
> >> >> > Simply burn a couple of holes in the shroud and then tie in a bolt
> >snap.
> >> >Then
> >> >> > position yourself behind and just above the prop wash.
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: "Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>
> >> >> > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> >> > Date: Tue Aug 21 06:12:01 PDT 2001
> >> >> > Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:08:18 -0400, you wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Around here we usually dive
> >> >> >>> with the boat attached to the wreck with varying amounts of
current
> >> >and
> >> >> >>> don't have the time to screw around on the surface.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Around here we dive with usually nothing but a strong current and
> >have
> >> >> >> less time to dick around than you do. You have time to fumble
with
> >> >> >> stuff and then leisurely follow the anchor.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> While the tow harness seen on cave expeditionary scooters are
great
> >> >for the
> >> >> >>> long haul they are a pain for this use. With the scooter clipped
> >off
> >> >at the
> >> >> >>> shroud you have instant access to the unit without having to
> >position
> >> >it
> >> >> >>> first.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> How often have you tried this? We did 4 drops to 250+ this
weekend
> >> >> >> several last weekend, and dozens of others over the past few
months.
> >> >> >> The scooters that we use are Gavins and the cord length is enough
to
> >> >> >> have it at arms length. When exiting the boat, it is clipped in
and
> >> >> >> being held by one hand. Hit the water and it is just as
immediately
> >> >> >> available.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> With a D/A it can actually pull you sideways from the waist if
you
> >> >> >>> want. In this case the forward mounted handles of the Dacor are
an
> >> >asset.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This leads to the question of ....why? Doing something like this
is
> >> >> >> going to strain the motor and start killing the batteries.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> But if you are doing a long cruise, like in a cave, the tow line
is
> >> >superior
> >> >> >>> for comfort, but this is usually not the case with wreckers. We
use
> >> >the
> >> >> >>> scooter in short bursts to hop around to different parts of the
> >wreck.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The tow cord is just as much an asset as anything else, if not
more.
> >> >> >> When you don't need the scooter and want to be close to the
bottom
> >> >> >> (i.e. looking for artifacts or lobster) then you do not want them
> >damn
> >> >> >> thing under you continuously dragging. My scooter is just barely
> >> >> >> positive in saltwater and I will just move it to the side until
it
> >is
> >> >> >> needed. I want something that is not going to be in the way but
> >> >> >> provides the burn time and depth I need. When you start keeping
it
> >in
> >> >> >> close, you are going to start getting all kinds of crap caught in
> >the
> >> >> >> props, even with the damn guard. Just ask JT. Keeping the tow
cord
> >too
> >> >> >> short also ads a hell of a lot more drag.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> The single battery of A/D makes it lightweight enough to be an
> >> >attached part
> >> >> >>> of your gear. It's no problem to change batteries between dives,
in
> >> >fact
> >> >> >>> that is preferable to carrying 2 or more batteries at once,
having
> >to
> >> >hump
> >> >> >>> these batteries on and off the dive boat. As far as pulling
power I
> >> >have no
> >> >> >>> problem hauling all my stuff plus another tech diver behind me
with
> >an
> >> >A/D,
> >> >> >>> and have done it several times.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Single battery of the Gavin short tube provides me with more than
an
> >> >> >> hours burn time. You're getting too short a burn time since
you're
> >> >> >> drawing a hell of a lot more amps literally dragging yourself
> >around.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Don't short change yourself. The short cords and short battery
life
> >> >> >> becomes too much of a liability for anything more serious than 60
> >foot
> >> >> >> reef dives. When doing that dive, I'll pull out a Torpedo or my
old
> >> >> >> Mako. Anything else, then you need what works.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord:
> >> >> >> 222:  I reserve the right to execute any henchmen who appear to
be a
> >> >little
> >> >> >> too intelligent, powerful, or devious. However if I do so, I will
> >not
> >> >at some
> >> >> >> subsequent point shout "Why am I surrounded by these incompetent
> >> >fools?!"
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> >> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ___________________________________________________
> >> >> > GO.com Mail
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________
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> >>
> >
>
>
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