Actually, just the opposite is true.  (Except for the weight.  A Gavin short
body is about 80 lbs.  A Mako is close to that (~70) and I can't speak for
the Dacor.)

Except for the scooter specific parts (Mako) -shrouds etc. - every thing
else is readily available through normal supply houses.  There are no
"exotic" parts in them and they can be easily disassembled for in the field
repair wth a screwdriver.

As far as hassel on a charter, the footprint is the shroud diameter.
Excepting the Farrallon, they are all about the same.  I have taken mine to
the Yucatan by  plane as well as to the Doria.  I use it routinely on
charters from a 6 pak to a 12 passenger dive boat.  It is no more problem to
carry or transport than any other scooter and is far more reliable and depth
tolerant.

Take apart a Mako and take apart a Gavin.  You will barely have the
batteries out of the Mako and the Gavin will be field stripped and
reassembled.

Other than that, we agree.  :-)))

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
To: Joe <joe@po*.co*>; Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>; Michael
J. Blitch <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor


> >Properly maintained, these scooters are bullet proof and can go anywhere.
>
> Joe, the canister scooters are a hell of a lot heavier and bigger thus
much more hassle on a charter. They are not bullet proof and are more
expensive to repair and more difficult to find parts for. The rest of your
post I agree with however..:-)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Joe"<joe@po*.co*>
> To: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*>, "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>,
"Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>, techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Date: Wed Aug 22 19:17:52 PDT 2001
> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>
> >>but I simply cannot imagine stepping off a dive boat with a 5' drop with
> >stages >and a friggin Gavin held out in front of me.
> >
> >Why?  I do it all the time.
> >
> >You hold it by the strap under the nose cone, lift it a bit, step off the
> >boat and pull the it foward and down.  The scooter goes nose first into
the
> >water and winds up under you.  Since it is tethered to you already, you
> >release the strap when you hit the water, grab the handle and go all in
one
> >fluid motion.
> >
> >> Yes, the shroud clip is unabashed strokery, no doubt about it, but it
> >works well >for us.
> >
> >Am I detecting a bit of personal preference here?  :-)
> >
> >A neutrally balanced scooter on a tow rope of proper length is the way to
> >go.  On deco or in a cave, wreck or anywhere else the scooter is just
> >"there" but out of your way.  You simply place it where you want and it
> >pretty much stays put until you move.
> >
> >> After trying both systems I am not satisfied with the Gavin/tow rope...
> >
> >Most likely you did not have the proper length tow rope.  It needs to be
> >adjusted for each persons arm length.  Even an inch out of position will
> >affect the operation of the scooter.
> >
> >Properly maintained, these scooters are bullet proof and can go anywhere.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >To: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>; Michael J. Blitch
> ><mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:40 AM
> >Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >
> >
> >> Yes, I've tried a Gavin. They are excellent scooters, they are big,
heavy
> >> and built like a tank. Yes they pull like a freight train and yes the
most
> >> efficient way to rig is using the tow rope setup.
> >>
> >> The question for you have *you* tried it both ways? Have you tried a
> >shroud
> >> clip D/A? Yes, the shroud clip is unabashed strokery, no doubt about
it,
> >but
> >> it works well for us.
> >>
> >> After trying both systems I am not satisfied with the Gavin/tow rope
> >> solution for techdiving. Any more than I would take a rebreather wreck
> >> diving. The Gavin is ideal for cavers and a nice machine but it is too
> >heavy
> >> to deal with for our style of diving, IMHO.
> >>
> >> Now maybe I'm an old guy with a bad back, but I simply cannot imagine
> >> stepping off a dive boat with a 5' drop with stages and a friggin Gavin
> >held
> >> out in front of me.
> >>
> >>    Jim
> >>
> >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>
> >> > From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> >> > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
> >> > To: "Michael J. Blitch" <mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>,
> >techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> > Subject: Re: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >> >
> >> > I agree, in my opinion mounting a carabineer to ride on top of the
Decor
> >dpv
> >> > is the silliest strokery I've seen come out of this list in a long
time.
> >> > Simply burn a couple of holes in the shroud and then tie in a bolt
snap.
> >Then
> >> > position yourself behind and just above the prop wash.
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: "Michael J. Blitch"<mblitch1@ta*.rr*.co*>
> >> > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> > Date: Tue Aug 21 06:12:01 PDT 2001
> >> > Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
> >> >
> >> >> On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:08:18 -0400, you wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Around here we usually dive
> >> >>> with the boat attached to the wreck with varying amounts of current
> >and
> >> >>> don't have the time to screw around on the surface.
> >> >>
> >> >> Around here we dive with usually nothing but a strong current and
have
> >> >> less time to dick around than you do. You have time to fumble with
> >> >> stuff and then leisurely follow the anchor.
> >> >>
> >> >>> While the tow harness seen on cave expeditionary scooters are great
> >for the
> >> >>> long haul they are a pain for this use. With the scooter clipped
off
> >at the
> >> >>> shroud you have instant access to the unit without having to
position
> >it
> >> >>> first.
> >> >>
> >> >> How often have you tried this? We did 4 drops to 250+ this weekend
> >> >> several last weekend, and dozens of others over the past few months.
> >> >> The scooters that we use are Gavins and the cord length is enough to
> >> >> have it at arms length. When exiting the boat, it is clipped in and
> >> >> being held by one hand. Hit the water and it is just as immediately
> >> >> available.
> >> >>
> >> >>> With a D/A it can actually pull you sideways from the waist if you
> >> >>> want. In this case the forward mounted handles of the Dacor are an
> >asset.
> >> >>
> >> >> This leads to the question of ....why? Doing something like this is
> >> >> going to strain the motor and start killing the batteries.
> >> >>
> >> >>> But if you are doing a long cruise, like in a cave, the tow line is
> >superior
> >> >>> for comfort, but this is usually not the case with wreckers. We use
> >the
> >> >>> scooter in short bursts to hop around to different parts of the
wreck.
> >> >>
> >> >> The tow cord is just as much an asset as anything else, if not more.
> >> >> When you don't need the scooter and want to be close to the bottom
> >> >> (i.e. looking for artifacts or lobster) then you do not want them
damn
> >> >> thing under you continuously dragging. My scooter is just barely
> >> >> positive in saltwater and I will just move it to the side until it
is
> >> >> needed. I want something that is not going to be in the way but
> >> >> provides the burn time and depth I need. When you start keeping it
in
> >> >> close, you are going to start getting all kinds of crap caught in
the
> >> >> props, even with the damn guard. Just ask JT. Keeping the tow cord
too
> >> >> short also ads a hell of a lot more drag.
> >> >>
> >> >>> The single battery of A/D makes it lightweight enough to be an
> >attached part
> >> >>> of your gear. It's no problem to change batteries between dives, in
> >fact
> >> >>> that is preferable to carrying 2 or more batteries at once, having
to
> >hump
> >> >>> these batteries on and off the dive boat. As far as pulling power I
> >have no
> >> >>> problem hauling all my stuff plus another tech diver behind me with
an
> >A/D,
> >> >>> and have done it several times.
> >> >>
> >> >> Single battery of the Gavin short tube provides me with more than an
> >> >> hours burn time. You're getting too short a burn time since you're
> >> >> drawing a hell of a lot more amps literally dragging yourself
around.
> >> >>
> >> >> Don't short change yourself. The short cords and short battery life
> >> >> becomes too much of a liability for anything more serious than 60
foot
> >> >> reef dives. When doing that dive, I'll pull out a Torpedo or my old
> >> >> Mako. Anything else, then you need what works.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord:
> >> >> 222:  I reserve the right to execute any henchmen who appear to be a
> >little
> >> >> too intelligent, powerful, or devious. However if I do so, I will
not
> >at some
> >> >> subsequent point shout "Why am I surrounded by these incompetent
> >fools?!"
> >> >> --
> >> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___________________________________________________
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> >> >
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> >> > --
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >
>
>
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