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Trey
I guess the next questions are:
- how soon or long to a prototype available
- how much $ (estimated)
- weight out of water
- buoyancy characteristics (estimated)
- any pictures of past similar prototypes
I would be willing to test one out up here. We are scheduling several more
deeper dives this fall both here and Hatteras.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Trey [mailto:girvine@be*.ne*]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 9:01 PM
To: David B. Widen; trey@ne*.co*; 'Capt JT'; 'Bryon Bertrim'; 'Wendell
Grogan'
Cc: 'Techdiver Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
We used the Lamar scooter to sneak dive and check out places for bigger
dives later. We also used it and another one I made for real deep dives. My
version was to expensive to produce, Lamar's was too little, so we went with
Bill Gavin's design. I just changed some shapes and stress points and use
different materials for different applications mostly to make it easier to
maintain.
For you guys I think I can get something that will do the depth and still be
inexpensive. It will be ugly, but it will be a badass.
-----Original Message-----
From: David B. Widen [mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:58 PM
To: trey@ne*.co*; 'Capt JT'; 'Bryon Bertrim'; 'Wendell Grogan'
Cc: 'Techdiver Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
Trey
You have seen how we use the Dacor up here in VB and also when we have
visited down in FL. I know that several of us would be interested in
something that could go deeper without the problem of crushing. The burner
time would need to be closer to 45 minutes for the typical shallower divers
and to provide the margin of safety on the deeper dive (200-300 FSW Plus).
The deeper (380 ~ 420) would not need the burn time for the depth but the
extended deco.
There are some issues about the Dacor as they stand now and relative
position to the diver.
What are some of the specification or characteristics of the proposed (Lamar
English version)?
Thanks
David
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trey [ mailto:girvine@be*.ne* <mailto:girvine@be*.ne*> ]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:26 AM
> To: Capt JT; Bryon Bertrim; Wendell Grogan
> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List
> Subject: RE: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>
>
> JT, everyone always has some great "improvement" on Bill
> Gavin's design. In
> our world we say, "look who has the end of the line", and
> that goes for
> Europe and the US. It is no accident that we can bet our
> lives for 19,000
> feet each way on the Gavin design. I will not go into why,
> but anyone who
> needs to know already does. For wreck diving, you guys could
> use the same
> stuff we do, but in your case I like the idea of everyone
> having the same
> gear and it being interchangeable, and in the case of the
> Dacor, they don't
> come any simpler and it certainly has been effective for your
> application.
>
> I have made a couple of prototype wreck scooters, with the
> concept being
> smaller, more powerful and able to go much deeper, but I am
> just now finding
> ways to make them affordable. Lamar English actually had a
> real nice one
> that you could pick up and hold in one hand and fit into your
> dive bag. It
> had a battery in it like the lights, and would run 20 minutes
> at about 3
> knots. I was thinking about bringing that design back for wreckers, or
> something similar.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Capt JT [ mailto:captjt@mi*.co*
<mailto:captjt@mi*.co*> ]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:01 PM
> To: Bryon Bertrim; Wendell Grogan
> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor
>
>
> I guess you don't know as much as you say, its funny how on
> this list you
> can post one thing and those that lurk come out, the guy who
> built the one
> I used knew whose I used and why it was so dam slow. I let Tom (a
> friend)use the SS and I dusted his ass with my Apollo at
> 220ft on the Doria
> and had to keep stopping so he could keep up... They now tell
> me that they
> are correcting the motors in the SS, but they still will have
> a problem
> with that type of trigger motorcycle handle on the SS. The
> one I used is
> only good for depth nothing more, he is willing to come dive
> with us and
> let us test the new ones, so I may change my mind, but the
> one I saw/used
> was a piece of shit, except for the depth rating and should
> be replaced at
> no cost.... Would I use it on one of my deep dives, sure the
> Apollo/Dacors
> won't cut it past 250ft, the SS has been to a max depth of
> 360ft, I have
> made 6 dives PAST that depth and 3 more planned for Oct. one
> will be past
> 500ft, you think that scooter is tough let me use one on that
> dive, I'll
> test it and let you know.....
>
> BTW if you paid 2K for an Apollo someone saw you coming.....
>
>
>
> At 11:12 AM 8/20/01 -0400, Bryon Bertrim wrote:
> >JT and boys
> >I believe your your opinion is way off base, the Silent
> Submersion units
> are
> >only comparable to a Gavin and Zepp performance wise, like
> the Gavin they
> >both utilize a beefed up Oceanic Mako motor running at 24
> volts my guess
> >around 1300 RPM they are depth rated to 500 ft/ beyond and
> durable as hell.
> >The Dacor/Apollo is a light duty inexpensive toy by
> comparison, yes you may
> >mod the triggers and beef up the outer shell to handle a bit
> more depth but
> >that is it. The Dacor runs a single 12 volt 24 Amp hr
> battery and run at
> 500
> >RPM the smallest SS unit uses 2 x18 amp hrs batteries and
> the mid range
> uses
> >2 x26 Amp/hr. So you can say that the SS unit is heaver and
> more expensive
> >but the towing power of an SS is over 3 X more than any
> Dacor. You have to
> >worry about the Dacors just making it to the dive site the
> case is so thin.
> >DIR means just that buy the right equipment for the job and
> the SS unit is
> >an expedition class scooter. I use the SS's addition power
> maneuvering in
> >moderate to heavy current much like cave flow its bull nose
> breaks the
> water
> >around the diver and equipment allowing you to handle more
> flow with less
> >stress. In a more recent comparison an SS unit to Dacor i
> had to de-pitch
> >the SS's prop to 4 out of 9 to allow the Dacor to barely
> keep up in a no
> >current shootout and i had more gear. Having owned both there is no
> >comparison and recommend that if you are into any level of
> technical diving
> >and can afford it buy a real scooter.. A new Apollo will run
> you 2K where
> >for 1.5K more you get 3 X the scooter. All this said, I do
> agree almost any
> >scooter is better than no scooter at all.
> >
> >BB
> >
> >FYI Dacor and the Apollo av1 are on in the same. Dacor OEMs them from
> >Apollo.
> > http://www.apollosportsusa.com/products-av1.html
<http://www.apollosportsusa.com/products-av1.html>
> >www.silent-submersion.com
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Wendell Grogan" <wgrogan@dc*.ne*>
> >To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
> >Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:39 PM
> >Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of the List
> >
> >
> > > OK, good to know. But let me ask, easier? In what way?
> Cheaper and
> > > faster are more obvious.
> > > Wendell
> > >
> > > Capt JT wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have used the Silent Submersion, if you only dive
> past 225ft all the
> >time
> > > > then that is what its good for. It has little use or
> comparison to the
> > > > Apollo/Dacor scooter, they are faster, easier, and
> cheaper..... better
> >in
> > > > my book....
> > > >
> > > > At 12:27 AM 8/19/01 +0200, wendell grogan wrote:
> > > > >If anyone is interested, Rodney Nairne's scooters have
> > > > >been a good 50 meters deeper without any problems. He
> > > > >sells them as Silent Submersion.
> > > > >Wendell
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> schrieb: > Huh,
> > > > >actually, 55m is essentially the same depth
> > > > > > rating as a standard Mako:
> > > > > > 180 feet MOD. I did take one down to that depth the
> > > > > > other day, but
> > > > > > considering how often they leak on just mild dives,
> > > > > > despite major babying of
> > > > > > the o-rings, I wouldn't trust one for anything
> > > > > > serious. Likely you will end
> > > > > > up swimming it back, full of water.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> > > > > > > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > > To: Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re:
> > > > > > Purpose of the List
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mako 2 and it's factory rated for 55m anybody done
> > > > > > deeper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: "Cam Banks"<cam@ca*.co*>
> > > > > > > To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, "Techdiver
> > > > > > > (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > > Date: Fri Aug 17 09:07:58 PDT 2001
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose
> > > > > > of the List
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> What new Mako, please? Thanks.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Cam
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*>
> > > > > > >>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > >>> To: "David B. Widen" <dwiden@ho*.co*>,
> > > > > > "Techdiver (E-mail)"
> > > > > > >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > >>> Subject: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose of
> > > > > > the List
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> MOD for the new Mako.
> > > > > > >>> The manual states 55m. thanks
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >>> From: "David B. Widen"<dwiden@ho*.co*>
> > > > > > >>> To: "Techdiver (E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > >>> Date: Thu Aug 16 18:55:34 PDT 2001
> > > > > > >>> Subject: Purpose of the List
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> Let go back to tech diving issue and thoughts,
> > > > > > drop the T & A stuff. This
> > > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > > >>>> not January with cold and blow out. It is
> > > > > > August with great diving
> > > > > > >>>> opportunities.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> David
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > ___________________________________________________
> > > > > > >>> GO.com Mail
> > > > > > >>> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at
> > > > > > http://mail.go.com <http://mail.go.com>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> --
> > > > > > >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > > >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > ___________________________________________________
> > > > > > > GO.com Mail
> > > > > > > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at
> > > > > > http://mail.go.com <http://mail.go.com>
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
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> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >__________________________________________________________________
> > > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > >Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
<http://mail.yahoo.de>
> > > > >--
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> > > >
> > > > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later
> you have to get
> in
> >the
> > > > water"
> > > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> > > > Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ <http://www.capt-jt.com/>
> > > > Email captjt@mi*.co*
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
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> > >
>
> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have
> to get in the
> water"
> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ <http://www.capt-jt.com/>
> Email captjt@mi*.co*
>
>
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charset=3DWindows-1252">
<TITLE>RE: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Trey</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
guess the next questions are:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>- how=20
soon or long to a prototype available</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>- how=20
much $ (estimated)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-=20
weight out of water</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-=20
buoyancy characteristics (estimated)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>- any=20
pictures of past similar prototypes</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
would be willing to test one out up here. We are scheduling several more =
deeper=20
dives this fall both here and Hatteras.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310074011-22082001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>David</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Trey=20
[mailto:girvine@be*.ne*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 21, =
2001 9:01=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> David B. Widen; trey@ne*.co*; 'Capt JT'; 'Bryon =
Bertrim';=20
'Wendell Grogan'<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'Techdiver Mailing =
List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20
Silent Submersion Vs Dacor<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D189064800-22082001>We=20
used the Lamar scooter to sneak dive and check out places for bigger =
dives=20
later. We also used it and another one I made for real deep dives. My =
version=20
was to expensive to produce, Lamar's was too little, so we went with =
Bill=20
Gavin's design. I just changed some shapes and stress points and use =
different=20
materials for different applications mostly to make it easier to=20
maintain.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D189064800-22082001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D189064800-22082001>For=20
you guys I think I can get something that will do the depth and still =
be=20
inexpensive. It will be ugly, but it will be a =
badass.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> David B.
Widen=20
[mailto:dwiden@ho*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 21, 2001 =
7:58=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> trey@ne*.co*; 'Capt JT'; 'Bryon Bertrim'; =
'Wendell=20
Grogan'<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'Techdiver Mailing
List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE: Silent=20
Submersion Vs Dacor<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><!-- Converted from =
text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=3D2>Trey</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>You have seen how we use the Dacor up here in VB =
and also=20
when we have visited down in FL. I know that several of us would be=20
interested in something that could go deeper without the problem of=20
crushing. The burner time would need to be closer to 45 minutes for =
the=20
typical shallower divers and to provide the margin of safety on the =
deeper=20
dive (200-300 FSW Plus). The deeper (380 ~ 420) would not need the =
burn time=20
for the depth but the extended deco.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>There are some issues about the Dacor as they =
stand now and=20
relative position to the diver.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>What are some of the specification or =
characteristics of the=20
proposed (Lamar English version)?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Thanks</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3D2>David</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
From: Trey [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:girvine@be*.ne*">mailto:girvine@bellsouth.net</A>]</=
FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:26 =
AM</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> To: Capt JT; Bryon Bertrim; Wendell =
Grogan</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List</FONT>
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> Subject: RE: Silent Submersion Vs Dacor</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> JT,=20
everyone always has some great "improvement" on Bill =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> Gavin's design. In</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>
our =
world we=20
say, "look who has the end of the line", and </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
that goes for</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> Europe and the US. It
=
is no=20
accident that we can bet our </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> lives =
for=20
19,000</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> feet each way on the Gavin =
design. I=20
will not go into why, </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> but anyone =
who</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> needs to know already does. For wreck =
diving, you guys=20
could </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> use the same</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
stuff we do, but in your case I like the idea of everyone =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> having the same</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> gear =
and it being=20
interchangeable, and in the case of the </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> Dacor,=20
they don't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> come any simpler and it =
certainly=20
has been effective for your </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
application.</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> I
have made a =
couple of=20
prototype wreck scooters, with the </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
concept=20
being</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> smaller, more powerful and
able =
to go=20
much deeper, but I am </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> just now =
finding</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> ways to make them affordable. Lamar English =
actually=20
had a </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> real nice one</FONT>
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> that you could pick up and hold in one hand and fit =
into your=20
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> dive bag. It</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> had a=20
battery in it like the lights, and would run 20 minutes =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> at about 3</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> knots. I
was =
thinking=20
about bringing that design back for wreckers, or</FONT>
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> something similar.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> From:=20
Capt JT [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*">mailto:captjt@mindspring.com</A>]</=
FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:01
PM</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> To: Bryon Bertrim; Wendell Grogan</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
Cc: Techdiver Mailing List</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> Subject:
=
Re: Silent=20
Submersion Vs Dacor</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> I guess you don't
know =
as much as=20
you say, its funny how on </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> this list
=
you</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> can post one thing and those that lurk come =
out, the=20
guy who </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> built the one</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> I used knew whose I used and why it was so dam slow. I =
let Tom=20
(a</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> friend)use the SS and I dusted
his =
ass with=20
my Apollo at </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> 220ft on the =
Doria</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> and had to keep stopping so he could keep =
up... They=20
now tell </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> me that they</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> are correcting the motors in the SS, but they still =
will have=20
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> a problem</FONT> <BR><FONT
=
size=3D2>> with=20
that type of trigger motorcycle handle on the SS. The =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> one I used is</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> only
good =
for depth=20
nothing more, he is willing to come dive </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> with=20
us and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> let us test the new ones, so
I =
may=20
change my mind, but the </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> one I =
saw/used</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> was a piece of shit, except for the depth =
rating and=20
should </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> be replaced at</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> no cost.... Would I use it on one of my deep dives, =
sure the=20
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> Apollo/Dacors</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
won't cut it past 250ft, the SS has been to a max depth of =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> 360ft, I have</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> made 6 =
dives PAST=20
that depth and 3 more planned for Oct. one </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> will=20
be past</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> 500ft, you think that
scooter =
is tough=20
let me use one on that </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> dive, =
I'll</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> test it and let you know.....</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> BTW if you paid 2K
for =
an Apollo=20
someone saw you coming.....</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> At=20
11:12 AM 8/20/01 -0400, Bryon Bertrim wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
>JT and boys</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >I believe your =
your opinion=20
is way off base, the Silent </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
Submersion=20
units</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> are</FONT> <BR><FONT
=
size=3D2>> >only=20
comparable to a Gavin and Zepp performance wise, like =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> the Gavin they</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>
>both =
utilize a=20
beefed up Oceanic Mako motor running at 24 </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
volts my guess</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >around 1300 RPM =
they are=20
depth rated to 500 ft/ beyond and </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
durable as=20
hell.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >The Dacor/Apollo is a
light =
duty=20
inexpensive toy by </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> comparison, yes =
you=20
may</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >mod the triggers and beef
up =
the outer=20
shell to handle a bit </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> more depth =
but</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> >that is it. The Dacor runs a single 12 =
volt 24 Amp=20
hr </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> battery and run at</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> 500</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >RPM the =
smallest SS unit=20
uses 2 x18 amp hrs batteries and </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>>
the =
mid=20
range</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> uses</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >2=20
x26 Amp/hr. So you can say that the SS unit is heaver and =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> more expensive</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>
>but =
the towing=20
power of an SS is over 3 X more than any </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> Dacor.=20
You have to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >worry about the =
Dacors just=20
making it to the dive site the </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> case
=
is so=20
thin.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >DIR means just that buy
the =
right=20
equipment for the job and </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> the SS
unit =
is</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> >an expedition class scooter. I use the =
SS's=20
addition power </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> maneuvering
in</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> >moderate to heavy current much like cave flow its =
bull nose=20
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> breaks the</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
water</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >around the diver and =
equipment=20
allowing you to handle more </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> flow
with =
less</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >stress. In a more recent =
comparison an=20
SS unit to Dacor i </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> had to =
de-pitch</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> >the SS's prop to 4 out of 9 to allow the =
Dacor to=20
barely </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> keep up in a no</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> >current shootout and i had more gear. Having owned =
both=20
there is no</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >comparison and =
recommend that=20
if you are into any level of </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
technical=20
diving</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >and can afford it buy a =
real=20
scooter.. A new Apollo will run </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> you
=
2K=20
where</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >for 1.5K more you get 3 X
=
the=20
scooter. All this said, I do </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> agree =
almost=20
any</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >scooter is better than no =
scooter at=20
all.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT
=
size=3D2>>=20
>BB</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> ></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
>FYI Dacor and the Apollo av1 are on in the same. Dacor OEMs them =
from</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >Apollo.</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.apollosportsusa.com/products-av1.html">http://www.apol=
losportsusa.com/products-av1.html</A></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> >www.silent-submersion.com</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> ></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >-----
Original =
Message=20
-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >From: "Wendell Grogan"=20
<wgrogan@dc*.ne*></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >To:
"Capt =
JT"=20
<captjt@mi*.co*></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >Cc: =
"Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> >Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:39 PM</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> >Subject: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re: Purpose =
of the=20
List</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> ></FONT> <BR><FONT
=
size=3D2>>=20
></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > OK, good to =
know. But let=20
me ask, easier? In what way? </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
Cheaper and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > faster are
more =
obvious.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > >
Wendell</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > =
Capt JT=20
wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > ></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > I have used the Silent Submersion, if =
you only=20
dive </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> past 225ft all the</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> >time</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > >
> =
then that=20
is what its good for. It has little use or </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
comparison to the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > =
Apollo/Dacor=20
scooter, they are faster, easier, and </FONT><BR><FONT
size=3D2>> =
cheaper..... better</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>
>in</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > my book....</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> ></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > >
> =
At 12:27=20
AM 8/19/01 +0200, wendell grogan wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> > >If anyone is interested, Rodney Nairne's scooters =
have</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >been a good 50 meters =
deeper=20
without any problems. He</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >
=
> >=20
>sells them as Silent Submersion.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3D2>> =
> >=20
> >Wendell</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > =
></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > ></FONT> <BR><FONT
=
size=3D2>> >=20
> > >--- Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> schrieb: >=20
Huh,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >actually,
55m =
is=20
essentially the same depth</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >
> =
> >=20
> rating as a standard Mako:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>>
> =
> >=20
> > 180 feet MOD. I did take one down to that depth =
the</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > other day, =
but</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > considering how =
often they=20
leak on just mild dives,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > =
> >=20
> despite major babying of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > =
> >=20
> > the o-rings, I wouldn't trust one for anything</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > serious. Likely you =
will=20
end</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > up =
swimming it=20
back, full of water.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > >
=
>=20
></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
Cam</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > ></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
> > > > > > From: terry michael=20
<OEA51@go*.co*></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > >
> =
> >=20
> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:54:55 -0700 (PDT)</FONT>
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > > To: Cam Banks=20
<cam@ca*.co*></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > =
> >=20
> > Subject: Re: Re: MOD for the new Mako was Re:</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > Purpose of the List</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > ></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> > > > > Mako 2 and it's factory rated for 55m =
anybody=20
done</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
deeper?</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > ></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > ></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> > > > > -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > > From: "Cam=20
Banks"<cam@ca*.co*></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > =
> >=20
> > > To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*>, =
"Techdiver</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > >=20
(E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> > > > > Date: Fri Aug 17 09:07:58 PDT 2001</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: MOD for the =
new Mako=20
was Re: Purpose</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >
=
> of the=20
List</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > >> What new =
Mako,=20
please? Thanks.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > >
> =
> >=20
>></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
>>=20
Cam</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
>></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> From: =
terry=20
michael <OEA51@go*.co*></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > =
> >=20
> > >>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:19:38 -0700 =
(PDT)</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> To: =
"David B.=20
Widen" <dwiden@ho*.co*>,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >
=
> >=20
> > "Techdiver (E-mail)"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> >
=
> >=20
> > >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> Subject: MOD for =
the new=20
Mako was Re: Purpose of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > =
> >=20
> the List</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > =
>=20
>>></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >
> =
>>> MOD for the new Mako.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
> >=20
> > > >>> The manual states 55m. thanks</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> -----Original=20
Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >
> =
>>> From: "David B. Widen"<dwiden@ho*.co*></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> To: "Techdiver=20
(E-mail)"<techdiver@aquanaut.com></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> > > > >>> Date: Thu Aug 16 18:55:34 PDT =
2001</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> =
Subject: Purpose=20
of the List</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >
>=20
>>></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >
> =
>>>> Let go back to tech diving issue and =
thoughts,</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > drop the T & A =
stuff.=20
This</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
>>>>=20
is</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
>>>>=20
not January with cold and blow out. It is</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> >=20
> > > > August with great diving</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
> > > > > >>>> opportunities.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>>></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>>> David</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > >=20
___________________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> GO.com =
Mail</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> Get =
Your Free,=20
Private E-mail at</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > >
> =
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href=3D"http://mail.go.com">http://mail.go.com</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> --</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> > > > > > >>> Send mail for =
the=20
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> =
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> >>=20
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>> =
Send mail=20
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to</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > >=20
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> > > ></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > =
> >=20
></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > =
></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > >=20
___________________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>> > > > > > > GO.com Mail</FONT> =
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<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > > --</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
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<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > > ></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
> > > ></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > >
>=20
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>>=20
=
>__________________________________________________________________</F=
ONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > >Do You Yahoo!?</FONT> =
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>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3D2>> =
> >=20
></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > "You can't
learn =
to dive on=20
the net, sooner or later </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> you have
to =
get</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
>the</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > water"</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>>=20
> > > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast =
&=20
more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > Web
=
Site =20
<A =
href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > > Email =
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--</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' =
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<BR><FONT size=3D2>> > ></FONT> <BR><FONT
size=3D2>>=20
</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> "You can't learn to dive on the
net, =
sooner or=20
later you have </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> to get in
the</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> water"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>> Your Guide to =
Great Wreck=20
Diving along the East Coast & more</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> Web Site <A=20
href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>> Email =
captjt@mi*.co*</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>> =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
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