Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C11BFB.356F1C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim,I agree there should be more control over these cavern area's for newer diver's.I will admit I was at Ginnie once when I was an open water weenie.I found the cavern very safe line out gated off and exit visible = at most times.I don't know about the other's,but this experience really = stoked my interest in cave diving without having to take an expensive = course.Common sense should prevail in these location's,but you know what they say = about common sense.I know when I was there I could have easily entered the = cave system with a light,there was noone there to say I could'nt.I would have thought that there would have been someone there watching all us weenies.Scary.Randy in Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Holcomb" <jimholcomb@x-*.co*> To: "Techdiver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:58 AM Subject: Re: cement pig! > Don't know what you are driving at there, Terry. BUT, your statement, = for > the most part, is correct. Open water divers ARE allowed in some = caverns in > North Florida. Open water STUDENTS are not allowed in overhead by any > standards and practices that I'm aware of from any training agency. = Now this > brings up another issue.....why do some facilities allow openwater = divers > into overhead environments (some with lights)? Ginnie, Devils Den, = Blue > Grotto, Vortex, ect.........??? Be advised though, that the cave = systems to > the places I just mentioned have been grated off BUT there is still = alot of > rock between the panicked openwater diver who just silted out a cavern = and > free air. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "terry michael" <OEA51@go*.co*> > To: "Charles Ayash" <cagraphics@mi*.co*> > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 11:59 AM > Subject: cement pig! > > > > So, open water training may include a tour of the "cavern zone" in = North > Florida? Then right after the course it's OK for the instructor to = take them > over to this place Royal springs, issue them a light and then cut them > loose?? How far in did they get. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Charles Ayash"<cagraphics@mi*.co*> > > To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*> > > Date: Thu Aug 02 06:56:09 PDT 2001 > > Subject: Re: cement pig > > > > >I was at Ginnie last Saturday and there were a group of about 8 > > >divers in the Devils Spring run. > > > > > >None had lights and I am guessing that they were just playing in = the Run > > >and the basin of the Ear. > > > > > >Prior to becoming Cave Certified I would do the same dive and also > > >scuba downstream back to Ginnie Spring. > > > > > >Ginnie Cavern is also a favorite for OW instructors. > > > > > >A OW Diver is allowed a light at Ginnie Cavern but if shows up at = the > Devils > > >then Security will turn them back. > > > > > >I hope this reply is not off base on the subject. > > > > > >Charlie > > > > > >At 04:02 AM 8/2/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > >>Yes, I think that was the one. So what's the deal are open water > students > > >getting certified open water doing dives in the overhead at Genie springs > > >camping grounds? If so is that a contributory factor in these = deaths? > > >> > > >>Or where these people just committing suicide? > > >> > > >> > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: "David E. Smith"<dsmith218@ho*.co*> > > >>To: "terry michael"<OEA51@go*.co*> > > >>Date: Wed Aug 01 19:07:49 PDT 2001 > > >>Subject: Re: cement pig > > >> > > >>>The story about the divers (and the pig) sounds like Royal = Springs. > > >>> > > >>>dsmith218@ho*.co* > > >>>ICQ# 25409809 > > >>> > > >>>Moderation is for the poor, and the healthy...of which I am neither. - > > >>>Polver > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>-----Original Message----- > > >>>From: terry michael [mailto:OEA51@go*.co*] > > >>>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:00 AM > > >>>To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > >>>Subject: cement pig > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>I was reading this article in the NSS journal about a tragic cave > fatality > > >>>involving two freshly certified OW divers who got killed on their very > first > > >>>"real dive" and then had to be recovered. According to the = article the > > >>>instructor invited them along to retrieve a cement pig, from a = spring > in > > >>>north Florida. They were apparently given one light and then = preceded > to > > >>>swim into the cave and got lost and killed. The instructor that = just > > >>>certified them over at called Genie Springs was at the site at = the time > but > > >>>was busy with another diver who was having trouble equalizing his ears. > The > > >>>other two must have decided to explore the cavern at some point = with > the > > >>>single light between them. So my question is this: do the = instructors > take > > >>>the OW students into the overhead during the open water course at Genie > > >>>Springs camping resort? If so how does that work? Just curious. > > >>>Thanx > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>___________________________________________________ > > >>>GO.com Mail > > >>>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>-- > > >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >>___________________________________________________ > > >>GO.com Mail > > >>Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >> > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > > GO.com Mail > > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to = `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to = `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C11BFB.356F1C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>Hi Jim,I agree=20 there should be more control over these cavern area's for<BR>newer = diver's.I=20 will admit I was at Ginnie once when I was an open water<BR>weenie.I = found the=20 cavern very safe line out gated off and exit visible at<BR>most times.I = don't=20 know about the other's,but this experience really stoked<BR>my interest = in cave=20 diving without having to take an expensive course.Common<BR>sense should = prevail=20 in these location's,but you know what they say about<BR>common sense.I = know when=20 I was there I could have easily entered the cave<BR>system with a = light,there=20 was noone there to say I could'nt.I would have<BR>thought that there = would have=20 been someone there watching all us<BR>weenies.Scary.Randy in = Canada.<BR>-----=20 Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jim Holcomb" <</FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:jimholcomb@x-*.co*"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>jimholcomb@x-*.co*</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>><BR>To: "Techdiver" <</FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>techdiver@aquanaut.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>><BR>Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:58 AM<BR>Subject: Re: = cement=20 pig!<BR><BR><BR>> Don't know what you are driving at there, = Terry. BUT,=20 your statement, for<BR>> the most part, is correct. Open water = divers=20 ARE allowed in some caverns<BR>in<BR>> North Florida. Open = water=20 STUDENTS are not allowed in overhead by any<BR>> standards and = practices that=20 I'm aware of from any training agency. Now<BR>this<BR>> brings up = another=20 issue.....why do some facilities allow openwater divers<BR>> into = overhead=20 environments (some with lights)? Ginnie, Devils Den, Blue<BR>> = Grotto,=20 Vortex, ect.........??? Be advised though, that the cave = systems<BR>to<BR>>=20 the places I just mentioned have been grated off BUT there is still=20 alot<BR>of<BR>> rock between the panicked openwater diver who just = silted out=20 a cavern and<BR>> free air.<BR>> ----- Original Message = -----<BR>>=20 From: "terry michael" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OEA51@go*.co*"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>OEA51@go*.co*</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>><BR>> To: "Charles Ayash" = <</FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:cagraphics@mi*.co*"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>cagraphics@mi*.co*</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>><BR>> Cc: <</FONT><A = href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>techdiver@aquanaut.com</FONT></A><FONT = face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>><BR>> Sent: Thursday, August = 02, 2001 11:59=20 AM<BR>> Subject: cement pig!<BR>><BR>><BR>> > So, open = water=20 training may include a tour of the "cavern zone" in North<BR>> = Florida? Then=20 right after the course it's OK for the instructor to = take<BR>them<BR>> over=20 to this place Royal springs, issue them a light and then cut = them<BR>>=20 loose?? How far in did they get.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >=20 -----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: "Charles = Ayash"<</FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:cagraphics@mi*.co*"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>cagraphics@mi*.co*</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>><BR>> > To: "terry michael"<</FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:OEA51@go*.co*"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>OEA51@go*.co*</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>><BR>>=20 > Date: Thu Aug 02 06:56:09 PDT 2001<BR>> > Subject: Re: cement = pig<BR>> ><BR>> > >I was at Ginnie last Saturday and = there were a=20 group of about 8<BR>> > >divers in the Devils Spring = run.<BR>> >=20 ><BR>> > >None had lights and I am guessing that they were = just=20 playing in the<BR>Run<BR>> > >and the basin of the Ear.<BR>> = >=20 ><BR>> > >Prior to becoming Cave Certified I would do the = same dive=20 and also<BR>> > >scuba downstream back to Ginnie = Spring.<BR>> >=20 ><BR>> > >Ginnie Cavern is also a favorite for OW=20 instructors.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >A OW Diver is allowed a = light at=20 Ginnie Cavern but if shows up at the<BR>> Devils<BR>> > = >then=20 Security will turn them back.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >I hope = this=20 reply is not off base on the subject.<BR>> > ><BR>> >=20 >Charlie<BR>> > ><BR>> > >At 04:02 AM 8/2/2001 = -0700, you=20 wrote:<BR>> > >>Yes, I think that was the one. So what's the = deal=20 are open water<BR>> students<BR>> > >getting certified open = water=20 doing dives in the overhead at Genie<BR>springs<BR>> > >camping = grounds? If so is that a contributory factor in these deaths?<BR>> = >=20 >><BR>> > >>Or where these people just = committing=20 suicide?<BR>> > >><BR>> > >><BR>> >=20 >>-----Original Message-----<BR>> > >>From: "David E.=20 Smith"<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:dsmith218@ho*.co*"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>dsmith218@ho*.co*</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>><BR>> > >>To: "terry=20 michael"<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OEA51@go*.co*"><FONT face=3D"Times = New Roman"=20 size=3D3>OEA51@go*.co*</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>><BR>>=20 > >>Date: Wed Aug 01 19:07:49 PDT 2001<BR>> > = >>Subject:=20 Re: cement pig<BR>> > >><BR>> > >>>The story = about=20 the divers (and the pig) sounds like Royal Springs.<BR>> >=20 >>><BR>> > >>>dsmith218@ho*.co*<BR>> >=20 >>>ICQ# 25409809<BR>> > >>><BR>> >=20 >>>Moderation is for the poor, and the healthy...of which I=20 am<BR>neither. -<BR>> > >>>Polver<BR>> >=20 >>><BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>><BR>> = >=20 >>><BR>> > >>>-----Original Message-----<BR>> = >=20 >>>From: terry michael [mailto:OEA51@go*.co*]<BR>> >=20 >>>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:00 AM<BR>> > = >>>To:=20 </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>techdiver@aquanaut.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>> > >>>Subject: cement pig<BR>> >=20 >>><BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>>I was = reading=20 this article in the NSS journal about a tragic cave<BR>> = fatality<BR>>=20 > >>>involving two freshly certified OW divers who got = killed on=20 their<BR>very<BR>> first<BR>> > >>>"real dive" and = then had to=20 be recovered. According to the article<BR>the<BR>> >=20 >>>instructor invited them along to retrieve a cement pig, from = a=20 spring<BR>> in<BR>> > >>>north Florida. They were = apparently=20 given one light and then preceded<BR>> to<BR>> > = >>>swim into=20 the cave and got lost and killed. The instructor that just<BR>> >=20 >>>certified them over at called Genie Springs was at the site = at=20 the<BR>time<BR>> but<BR>> > >>>was busy with another = diver who=20 was having trouble equalizing his<BR>ears.<BR>> The<BR>> >=20 >>>other two must have decided to explore the cavern at some = point=20 with<BR>> the<BR>> > >>>single light between them. So = my=20 question is this: do the instructors<BR>> take<BR>> > = >>>the=20 OW students into the overhead during the open water course = at<BR>Genie<BR>>=20 > >>>Springs camping resort? If so how does that work? Just=20 curious.<BR>> > >>>Thanx<BR>> > = >>><BR>> >=20 >>><BR>> >=20 >>>___________________________________________________<BR>> = >=20 >>>GO.com Mail<BR>> > >>>Get Your Free, Private = E-mail=20 at </FONT><A href=3D"http://mail.go.com"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>http://mail.go.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>>=20 > >>><BR>> > >>><BR>> > = >>>--<BR>>=20 > >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list = to<BR></FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:`techdiver@aquanaut.com'"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>.<BR>> > >>>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests = to<BR>>=20 </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>.<BR>> > >>><BR>> = >=20 >><BR>> > >><BR>> >=20 >>___________________________________________________<BR>> > = >>GO.com Mail<BR>> > >>Get Your Free, Private E-mail = at=20 </FONT><A href=3D"http://mail.go.com"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>http://mail.go.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>>=20 > >><BR>> > >><BR>> > >>--<BR>> > = >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to<BR></FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:`techdiver@aquanaut.com'"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>.<BR>> > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests=20 to<BR></FONT><A href=3D"mailto:`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>.<BR>> > >><BR>> > = ><BR>>=20 ><BR>> ><BR>> >=20 ___________________________________________________<BR>> > GO.com=20 Mail<BR>> > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at </FONT><A=20 href=3D"http://mail.go.com"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>http://mail.go.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>>=20 ><BR>> ><BR>> > --<BR>> > Send mail for the = `techdiver'=20 mailing list to </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:`techdiver@aquanaut.com'"><FONT = face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>.<BR>> > Send = subscribe/unsubscribe requests=20 to </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>.<BR>> ><BR>> = ><BR>><BR>>=20 --<BR>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to </FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:`techdiver@aquanaut.com'"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>.<BR>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to </FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D3>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'</FONT></A><FONT face=3D"Times = New Roman"=20 size=3D3>.<BR>></FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C11BFB.356F1C60-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]