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A lung shunt is a lung shunt, not "undeserved". You just have to stop putting out the party line if you know better. If you do not, then up and listen. Your constant efforts to discredit what is rapidly being proven correct ( everything I have said all along about deco and dcs) are getting tiring. Otherwise, if I am misunderstanding you, go learn better English. I have no patience for you given the volume of argumentative and misleading crap that you have put out which is contrary to reality. I can have your own countrymen, Rienhard and Mike Waldbrenner explain it to you in German. I am sick and tired of your screwups on here . I am sick of having to correct them. I am sick of bullshit that misleads people. Get it right or shut up. Nothing less will do. And the rest of your post is too stupid and too party line to even discuss. It is crap. -----Original Message----- From: Matthias Voss [mailto:mat.voss@t-*.de*] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:46 AM To: Trey Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com; sstraat1@ta*.rr*.co* Subject: Re: DCS incident > Mathias, I see you are back to the misinformation game again. Trey, you do not get it. >The > "undeserved hit" is the excuse DAN uses for covering up the PFO issue. There > is no way anyone gets this without a shunt or bouncing after a dive. FACT. You miss here the lung defect ( cyste ) I mentioned. There are at least 2 cases I know of which are well documented. Otherwise I completely agree with you,only the adverb "undeserved", when used in combination with DCS hits, has since long changed its meaning from "not understood" to signifying the the same ( and miniscule more) cuases you mentioned. Really no need to fill in here. It is self understood. At least this side of the pond. And even with DAN people , trust me. > The rest of what you wrote is complete bullshit. Which part specificly, and why ? regards Matthias > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthias Voss [mailto:mat.voss@t-*.de*] > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:48 AM > Cc: Trey; techdiver@aquanaut.com; sstraat1@ta*.rr*.co* > Subject: Re: DCS incident > > Steve, > I am sorry to be this late in replying. > > It is most probably an " undeserved" hit, Trey mentioned possible > causes, another cause could be alveolar rupture affecting which can > affect both sides, or a small cyste in the lung breaking. > To fast an accent on breathhold can be excluded? > > When you got someone on the line, be prepared to answer at least the > following questions : > > Chronology of symptoms and everything till arrival at chamber > Medication given and response hereto. > Preconditions ( medication, hydration, sicknesses, heart conditions, > unusual effort in the dive and the 3 days before) > history of past DCS > > There should be made an X-ray of the lungs , or an NMR, to detect a > possible cyste. > > If you haven' already got access to someone giving competent help ( > DCIEM ??) you may try to call the german Navy's facility in Kiel. > Reception desk is +49 (0)431 54090. They will answer " Bundeswehr Kiel", > you may speak english, ask for DR. Ulrich van Laak, indicating a diving > accident ( Tauchunfall, Dekompressions-Unfall ) You may refer to my > name. Or use +49 (0) 431-549-861, Dr. v. Laak. He is fluent in english. > Dr. van Laak is the german DAN chairman as well. > They most possibly have treated a similar case in Kiel. > e-mail: germany@da*.or* > > Other: > > Dr.Roggenbachin +49(0)2 01 50 25 54 or cellphone > +49(0)1 71) 2 10 02 87.( my associations scubadoc) > he was one of the first to describe hits like that (non DCS1 non DCS 2, > resistent to HBO) > > The DAN-Hotline Switzerland ( through REGA, an Heli-AR servive) > +41-1-1414 > > DAN USA Hotline > "DAN Emergency call Prof. Mano" > Tel. +1-9 19-6 84 81 11 > > HTH. > Matthias > > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Trey wrote: > > > > > This poor kid obviously had a gaping ASD or PFO, and > > > took the worst kind of hit. > -----Original Message----- > > > From: SRS [mailto:sstraat1@ta*.rr*.co*] > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 4:37 AM > > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > Subject: DCS incident > > > > > > > > > I'd appreciate it if anyone can forward to me info regarding DCS > treatment > > > in the Michigan area - had a friend's nephew (16 years old, fairly > > > experienced) get hit while on a 90 ft./:20 dive in Lake Michigan. Can't > > > walk/urinate after two chamber rides. Who are the experts in that area, > or > > > who else (anywhere) should they consult. Trey, if you see this, whose > the > > > doc. who did the doppler studies on the WKPP guys (U. of MIami?) - the > > > friend of mine lives down there, she could get info from him? Any help > is > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Steve Straatsma > > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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