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For the last time everyone - leave me out of this crap. Please have the courtesy to review the "reply-to" list when you send your messages out. Mike >From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) >To: "terry michael" <OEA51@go*.co*>, "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, >"Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, "Michael Barnette" ><aocfishman@ho*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, "Tech Diver" ><techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Subject: RE: Re: accident >Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:37:28 -0400 > > >Only and idiot like Mouth could think this is a good idea and he is too >stupid to even come up with any reasonable argument, other than to support >that piece of shit Weinberg, like he supported Andre Smith in his triple >killing by stupidity in Palm Beach. > >-----Original Message----- >From: terry michael [mailto:OEA51@go*.co*] >Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:38 AM >To: Jim Cobb; Tom Mount; Michael Barnette; FLTechDiver@mikey.net; Tech >Diver >Subject: Re: Re: accident > > >Jim, You'll need to get in line I'm still waiting to hear the logic behind >teaching open water courses in a rebreather? Is that ok? If so, how does >that actually work and what is the purpose? > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*> >To: "Tom Mount"<TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, "Michael >Barnette"<aocfishman@ho*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, "Tech >Diver"<techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Date: Sun Jul 01 18:41:13 PDT 2001 >Subject: Re: accident > > >I am confused about the part when is the best time to abandon your buddy. > >Tom, as I understand it you teach buddy abandonment in IANTD classes, as >it > >is better for one person to die than for both. Personally I think it >would > >be better to teach something more along the lines of its best for nobody >to > >die in the first place, but I know that's totally unrealistic of me. >After > >all this is technical diving and people are supposed to die now and then. > > > >Anyway, Did this buddy team do proper prior planning and decided that if >one > >or the other drops into a hypoxic delusional state that the buddy then > >assumes the other is a gonner and gets the hell out of the way? Or did >the > >situation call for abandonment for drysuit problems stemming from hypoxia > >induced hallucinations? What is the IANTD official abandonment plan for >this > >situation with rebreathers or drysuits? Or in this situation with a known > >problematic rebreather and drysuit is the abandonment plan based on a > >combination of the two? > > > >I also notice that the abandonment plan continued on the surface. I don't > >understand why IWR was not practiced even though they had several hours >to > >think the problem over. > > > >Please discuss the IANDT every man for himself policy and if it's just >for > >underwater or really does extend to the surface. > > > > Jim > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > >> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > >> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> > >> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:51 -0400 > >> To: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*>, ><FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > >> Subject: accident > >> > >> Accident Report in Regard to Garrets Death > >> This is one of the rare times we have a detailed accident report to >review: > >> Saturday June 23, 19:05, Garrett and Claudia started a dive to 300 feet >at > >> Mukilteo, WA. The dive included a swim of 15 minutes down a gradual >slope >to > >> the planned 300-foot depth where 5 minutes were spent. The dive was >planned > >> with software dive tables. Both knew the dive site very well. > >> Both were diving their inspiration units that had passed all pre-dive > >> checks. Onboard tanks were full (8/60 and O2), scrubber fresh (see >below). > >> Also, they were carrying an Al80 (10/50) and an Al40 (O2) as bailout >each, > >> equipped with inflator hoses, gauges, and second stage. > >>> From descent to ascent, including the deep stops, everything went >smoothly > >> like usual. > >> After leaving the 100 ft stop to 60 feet (20 ft/min) Garrett started to > >> display he was having a problem. > >> The Inspiration was functioning correctly and there were no PO2 >problems, > >> nor other CCR related problems. The after-market ADV was disengaged as >it > >> always was on ascent. No alarms, no malfunctions were taking place. > >> Claudia: Starting at 100 feet, he was suddenly behind me, not next to >me >or > >> slightly in front. I looked back and saw him getting rid of occasional >water > >> in the breathing hose (normal, although he usually did not do it on >ascent, > >> rather at the stop). He seemed to be struggling slightly with >'something'. > >> (When someone had problems of any kind, they would stop and the buddy >would > >> stop as well. In this case, although slightly slower, Garrett did not >stop, > >> and no other communication indicated a serious problem, yet.) > >> Claudia: Then, arrived at the 60 ft stop, the communication was strange >to > >> non-existent. All I understood, other than that he was getting in more >and > >> more distress, was that his dry suit was not as quickly deflated. He >showed > >> me that with opening the wrist seal slightly and bubbles coming out. >Because > >> of the warm neck hood, it's very hard to open the neck seal that way, >and > >> Garrett chose not to. " > >> Garrett presented more problems with buoyancy and a look of distress, >and > >> surprise. After we had spent some time trying to stop the ascent by > >> releasing gas and swimming down - I could not get to the dry suit >inflator > >> to detach it (although nothing indicated a runaway inflator) and worked >on > >> the BC inflator - Garrett stopped kicking and continued to the surface. >He > >> was just floating up, looking down to me. That look said that he knew >what > >> was going to happen, and I did too." > >> (The longest deco in my life (60 minutes according to tables), on top a > >> stomach barotrauma that made breathing very hard.) > >> Comment: This is what we actually talked about with Leon yesterday > >> afternoon: Gary never really liked his deflator that does not have a >rest > >> when fully opened, and together with the undergarment, it seemed >difficult > >> to release the Argon in a timely manner. However, I have never seen him > >> having problems before. > >> > >> According to a person at the surface that came to help, Garrett went to >the > >> boat ramp and climbed out of the water. He then collapsed on the boat >ramp, > >> and the guy pulled him from the ramp up. > >> > >> Garrett said something about his dry suit to this person. He had him >call > >> 911, told him about his buddy doing deco and to take care of her, and >had > >> him help set up everything to breathe O2 until the ambulance would >arrive. > >> He breathed oxygen until his onboard O2 was empty, and his stage / >bailout > >> O2 to 1700 psi by the time the ambulance arrived to pick him up. > >> (Throughout the dive an ordeal. There was no alarm or even 'sanity >break' >at > >> any time. The scrubber was okay. Mine was new, his had 54 minutes on >prior > >> to the dive.) > >> (Tom's comment) I think it is important that he made a conscious >decision > >> not to descend back to his stop in the water and Garrett was fully >aware >of > >> the problems with an explosive decompression, so it would lead one to >think > >> other factors many be involved. He also had adequate OC gas to do a >deco > >> procedure, had OC gas been needed. > >> Claudia: We had talked about situations like that before and had he >been > >> able to, he would have resumed his deco after fixing whatever problem >he > >> had. I did not like the idea of leaving him alone when we discussed it, >but > >> understand that otherwise we both would have been killed, and he never > >> wanted that to happen. In a similar situation, knowing that we were >close >to > >> the boat ramp on a Saturday evening with many people around, I would >have > >> expected for him to stay down as well. A hard decision I never wanted >to > >> have to make. > >> At the hospital where he also commented about his dry suit and then >fell > >> unconscious after 5 minutes, due to his condition (good ECG at first, >but >a > >> drop to 40 over 20) he was treated for a heart attack (while explosive >DSC > >> is life threatening, it was secondary to the seriousness of the heart >attack > >> in the judgment of the attending physicians, and it is difficult if not > >> impossible to fully address the heart condition while in a chamber) for >5 > >> hours prior to being placed in the chamber. 20 minutes into the chamber > >> treatment Garrett arrested and died. > >> Tom: Garrett was a really good friend and his loss saddens me greatly. >He > >> had a tremendous amount of time on the inspiration (460 hours plus) and >was > >> the most active instructor we have had on the west coast. And maybe the >most > >> active inspiration instructor in the USA. We have shared many dives, >deep > >> dives and recently he and Claudia went on a Blue Hole trip with several > >> others and myself. He was extremely competent and safety orientated. In >fact > >> during a training program when he was doing his IT and Martin was doing >his > >> instructors and Vicki her diver rating on the inspiration we hammered >out > >> sequencing. On the skills that are now taught in the IANTD Inspiration > >> course. So he has contributed very much to our training programs and to > >> rebreather diving safety overall. > >> > >> Patti, IANTD and I wish for Garrett the happiest after life possible >and > >> know his energy will always be with those he cared for. > >> > >>> From everything from observations to the medical reaction and >diagnosis >at > >> he hospital it would have lead one to accept that Garrett had a heart > >> attack. > >> > >> True without the complication of an explosive decompression he may have >had > >> a higher probability of surviving. > >> > >> BUT after his body was reviewed by the ME the following was found > >> > >> Claudia: According to the examiner, no enzymes could be built within >the > >> time frame of 5-6 'alive' hours that would let trace a heart attack, >and > >> they were not found. The final report may be shared with me in about >6-8 > >> weeks. This morning, two friends of ours, and students of Garrett's, >Ken > >> Rymal and Dave Hancock, and I were explaining the gear to the examiners >to > >> shed some light for them on the subject. We tested the unit in front of > >> them, and everything worked properly. > >> > >> Garrett and I were to get married 5 July, and had many good plans for > >> training and service, and just going diving all over the place. After > >> talking to Leon that afternoon, we produced even more ideas while >driving > >> from the lunch place up North to Mukilteo. Except for the harsh and >unfair > >> end, it was one of, of not the happiest weekend we had ever spent. > >> > >> Tom: questions that remain: > >> 1. What caused Garret to make the decision not to solve the problem in >water > >> (maybe due to physiological stress if fact he was having a physical >problem > >> as thought by the doctors ) > >> 2. Why once on the surface he elected not to return to the stops after > >> dealing with any other problems (again suggesting there was something >else > >> taking place) > >> 3. Why was he not put in the chamber earlier, (as stated by the >attending > >> Doctor a heart attack but according to the ME no evidence of a heart >attack > >> > >> So we may or may not discover the answers to these as well as what if >any > >> role a problem with the dry suit may or may not have had on this >accident. > >> > >> We do know it was not CCR related. And it appears that there was a > >> physiological problem taking place that influenced Garrett to allow >himself > >> to go to the surface and to elect not to return to decompression. > >> It is sad that he was not placed in the chamber immediately as that >would > >> have definitely increased the probability of his survival of the > >> decompression issue. But the attending doctors (s) had to make a >decision > >> based on what they perceived to be most life threatening. > >> > >> So we are still left with many questions > >> > >> We do know Garrett was extremely competent as a diver and highly >experienced > >> on the inspiration > >> > >> Respectfully > >> Claudia Milz and Tom Mount > >>> From Leon Scamahorn > >> I am at a loss. Garrett, Claudia, and I had just finished having lunch >and > >> talking about the Meg. I was looking forward to working with Garrett >and > >> diving with him and Claudia. > >> > >> I wish everyone to know that I believe Garrett was a fine instructor >and > >> probably the best one and diver in the country on the Inspiration. I >will > >> feel his loss, and I think that we all will feel his loss in the diving > >> industry. He has been a positive influence to all those that understood >him. > >> > >> Claudia, you have my best wishes. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> Leon Scamahorn > >> CEO Innerspace Systems Corp. > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Michael Barnette" <aocfishman@ho*.co*> > >> To: <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:04 PM > >> Subject: Update on Florida job announcement > >> > >> > >>> I thought this might be of interest to the list... > >>> Cheers, > >>> Mike > >>> Association of Underwater Explorers > >>> http://www.mikey.net/aue > >>> > >>>> Important Update on Underwater Archaeology Employment Opportunity > >>>> > >>>> The Florida Department of State position for an Archaeological Field > >>>> Supervisor within the Bureau of Archaeological Research that was > >> advertised > >>>> on 5/30/01 has been changed to Archaeological Field Assistant. Due to > >>>> recent > >>>> personnel changes and a clarification of policy, the Bureau of Human > >>>> Resources decided to delete the Supervisor position and add the >Assistant > >>>> position. Nonetheless, the starting salary will remain the same as >the > >>>> Supervisor position ($22,045.68). The new Assistant position is now > >> being > >>>> officially advertised. > >>>> > >>>> This career service position with full benefits represents a rare > >>>> opportunity in Florida for a trained individual who seeks government > >>>> service > >>>> employment to pursue investigation, assessment, and documentation of > >>>> submerged cultural resources for the public benefit. > >>>> > >>>> Important Note: Those individuals who already have submitted > >> applications > >>>> for the now-defunct Supervisor position will automatically be >considered > >>>> for > >>>> the Assistant position. The applications have been retained for > >>>> consideration, and one need not apply again. > >>>> > >>>> For those individuals who have not yet made application, there is an >open > >>>> period of 14 days (June 25 through July 9) during which applications >are > >>>> being accepted. Interested applicants should fill out a State of >Florida > >>>> employment application and send it to the address below as soon as > >>>> possible. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Bureau of Human Resources > >>>> Florida Department of State > >>>> 107 W. Gaines Street, Room 266 > >>>> Collins Building > >>>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > >>>> > >>>> Applications must be received by 5 p.m. on July 9th, 2001. > >>>> > >>>> The official announcement can be viewed at: > >>> > >>> >http://www.myflorida.com/oraweb/owa/www_cv.jobvac.detail?pvac_key=1042&preg > >> i > >>>> on=W > >>>> > >>>> The position announcement also will be posted on the Bureau's web >site > >> at: > >>>> http://www.dos.state.fl.us/dhr/bar/jobs.html > >>>> > >>>> This posting outlines (a) a description of the position, (b) minimum > >>>> qualifications (c) preferred applicant qualifications, and (d) how >to > >>>> obtain a State of Florida employment application by mail or from the > >>>> Internet. > >>>> > >>>> (a) Job Description for Archaeological Field Supervisor > >>>> The incumbent is to assist in the management of state-wide submerged > >>>> cultural resources. The incumbent will perform a range of functions > >> which > >>>> include conducting field surveys and site inspections; preparing and > >>>> presenting reports of archaeological findings in written and >illustrated > >>>> form; monitoring and supervising exploration and salvage contracts >and > >>>> related files; maintaining underwater site information databases; and > >>>> maintaining boats, vehicles, and underwater equipment. The position >is > >>>> located within the Tallahassee office of the Bureau, but requires > >> periodic > >>>> and extended travel throughout the state. > >>>> > >>>> (b) The minimum professional qualifications require completion of a > >>>> training > >>>> program in scuba diving techniques and one year (or 30 hours) of >scuba > >>>> diving experience; or one year of archaeological field experience; or > >>>> completion of 30 semester or 45 quarter hours of college coursework >which > >>>> includes two courses in anthropology or archaeology. > >>>> > >>>> (c) Preferred qualifications include an undergraduate degree with a >major > >>>> in > >>>> anthropology, archaeology, or related field and two years >professional > >>>> experience, as well as a divemaster or instructor diving >certification. > >>>> > >>>> Successful candidates shall be able to demonstrate their experience >and > >>>> expertise in the following: > >>>> > >>>> Knowledge of underwater archaeological theory and methodology; of > >> cultural > >>>> resource management issues, policies, and laws; of underwater survey >and > >>>> excavation techniques; and of remote sensing marine survey >technology. > >>>> > >>>> Skills in public relations through personal and professional >contacts; >in > >>>> underwater archaeological recording and mapping; in diving techniques >and > >>>> equipment; in the use of remote sensing survey equipment to conduct > >>>> professional level work; and in small boat handling and general >marine > >>>> maintenance and repair > >>>> > >>>> Ability to work independently in the field and in report preparation. > >>>> Ability to work well with land managers, fishermen, sport divers, > >>>> exploration and salvage contractors, and the general public. >Experience > >>>> with remote sensing survey work and underwater site mapping. >Experience > >>>> and > >>>> skills in small boat handling. Experience and skills in maintenance >and > >>>> repair of marine-related equipment. > >>>> > >>>> Ability to design and implement archaeological research of submerged > >> sites; > >>>> to conduct historical research; to use personal computer software; >and >to > >>>> write professional reports. Desire to travel throughout the state on >a > >>>> regular basis. > >>>> > >>>> (d) A State of Florida employment application form can be obtained >by > >>>> calling or writing to: > >>>> > >>>> Bureau of Human Resources > >>>> Collins Building, Room 266 > >>>> 107 W. Gaines Street > >>>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > >>>> Phone (850)245-6550 > >>>> > >>>> or, after noting the deadline, > >>>> > >>>> You may download the application form from the Internet by going to >this > >>>> address: > >>>> http://www.state.fl.us/dms/hrm/jobsdirect/application.html > >>>> You also can apply online for the position at this address. > >>>> > >>>> You may wish to send photocopies of the application form, a >professional > >>>> vita, and any other supporting materials to the address below for > >>>> simultaneous review. > >>>> > >>>> For further information, contact: > >>>> > >>>> Roger C. Smith, Ph.D. > >>>> State Underwater Archaeologist > >>>> Bureau of Archaeological Research > >>>> 500 South Bronough St. > >>>> Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250 > >>>> (850) 245-6444 > >>>> rsmith@ma*.do*.st*.fl*.us* > >>> > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >>> > >>> ============================================================ > >>> To contact the list administrator, email > >>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > >>> listserv@mi*.ne* > >>> and in the *BODY* of the message type: > >>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver > >> > >> > >> ============================================================ > >> To contact the list administrator, email > >> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > >> listserv@mi*.ne* > >> and in the *BODY* of the message type: > >> unsubscribe FLTechDiver > >> > > > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >___________________________________________________ >GO.com Mail >Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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