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Jim, I know what you are saying, or trying to say. I've been diving up here
for a while now and have loads of dives on all the boats you can think of
and tell stories about. I honestly think you're just telling stories....
"Black Balled", I've had plenty of conversations with "old timers" about
using O2 for deco, long hoses, single webbing rigs etc. I've never been
branded an asshole. If I was then they don't let me know it cause they keep
talking to me the next time I see them.... In fact I was just out diving
today and was talking with one of the "old timers". I don't ever remember
hearing one of the "old timers" come up and complain about their rig when
surfacing. Typically they are so simple that nothing breaks. In fact,
typically when the "old timers" I know come up, they are not complaining but
grinning from the artifact they just found that most just swam past.....
Art.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 8:43 PM
To: Tony Thomas; NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: NY DCS hit
I guess blacklisted is too hard a term. Let's just say that most tech dive
trips that take place are private charters and you will find yourself no
longer invited.
I've seen the pictures on the Wahoo and other web sites of rigs like I
mentioned below and have seen them with my own two eyes and I beg to
disagree. Occasionally NE groups will find there way down here (Virginia
Beach) on open trips and the stuff they wear is hard to believe.
As we have discussed on this list there are people who have been diving the
"old way" for the last 15 or 20 years and in all probability if you stuck
them in a DIR rig they would not be happy or find it lacking for some
unfounded reason or other. The real problem is that these people, apparently
born with an angel on their shoulder, try to press their fucked up
convoluted rigs on the newbies as being the thing to do.
I have leaned of the "code of silence" on dive boats. If you dare look at
someone's rig and point out this and that it's a sure way to be branded as
an asshole know-it-all. The result is usually a mule-like reaction in the
opposite direction. The more effective route is to do yourself up in your
nice, clean DIR rig and then come up from your dive with a big grin on your
face from all the fun you had and all the sights you saw. Then you listen to
the old timey guy say how this or that part of his rig broke or otherwise
fucked up and how they heroically extradited themselves from what was surely
a fatal situation if it were any other diver. Well, I guess "fun" is defined
differently by different divers.
Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
From: "Tony Thomas" <tonythomas@ny*.rr*.co*>
Reply-To: "Tony Thomas" <tonythomas@ny*.rr*.co*>
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:08:48 -0400
To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, <NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*>,
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Subject: Re: NY DCS hit
Jim -
Honestly, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever been blacklisted, or
fears being blacklisted, for telling the "true story" about any diving
incident up here. I've only ever heard of people being blacklisted from
boats up here for doing things like drifting deco without shooting a bag,
repeatedly coming up off the line with students, etc. Of course, you may
have different information than I do. As for the demented way some people
dive up here, I haven't seen the anchor chain ankle weight thing, but yeah,
some people up here do some pretty wacky things... but from what I've seen,
it sure isn't particular to the North East. Take a look around the parking
lot at Ginnie or Peacock sometime, or hop on a charter boat in North
Carolina. Or better yet, have a chat with legendary Ginnie map maker Jeff
Hancock <g>.
Tony
Nick, there are divers up there who are terrified of being blacklisted by
your dive boats should it be known that they leaked the true story.
So I get e-mails from folks who don't want to be persecuted by you NE divers
but still want folks to know about the demented way some people dive up
there.
You know, using anchor chain as ankle weights, independent doubles with no
backplates, horse collars or no BC's at all, Navy dive tables, centre
mounted ponies, and other bizarre, oldtimey stuff which is proven to kill
people over and over yet is still used up there without a thought.
Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
From: <NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:47:52 EDT
To: cobber@ci*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Fwd: NY DCS hit
From: NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:23:11 EDT
To: cobber@ci*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: NY DCS hit
Jim,
What news do you listen to or read?
I would think that someone like yourself with a fine, tenured diving career
would get the real facts before making themselves look like a fool on the
internet.
For your information, the diver you commented on has never been on Techdiver
and never took part in last years "Wahoo Wars"
Furthermore he does not own a "double bladder" OMS BC.
Please do us all a favor before you feel the need to spread rumors,
sensationalize a story or slander good people, get the facts before you
react.
NICK
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>J=
im, I
know what you are saying, or trying to say.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>I’ve been diving up here for a while now and =
have loads of
dives on all the boats you can think of and tell stories about.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I honestly think you’re =
just telling
stories….<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>“Black Balled”, I’ve had
plenty of conversations with “old timers” about using O2 =
for deco, long hoses,
single webbing rigs etc.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>I’ve
never been branded an asshole.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>If
I was then they don’t let me know it cause they keep talking to =
me the next
time I see them….<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</span>In fact I was just
out diving today and was talking with one of the “old =
timers”.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>I don’t ever remember =
hearing one of
the “old timers” come up and complain about their rig when =
surfacing. Typically
they are so simple that nothing breaks.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">
</span>In fact, typically when the “old timers” I know come =
up, they are not
complaining but grinning from the artifact they just found that most =
just swam
past…..<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font><
/span=
></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font><
/span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
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rt.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Jim Cobb
[mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June
11, =
2001 8:43
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Tony Thomas;
NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: NY DCS =
hit</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font><
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I =
guess
blacklisted is too hard a term. Let's just say that most tech dive =
trips that
take place are private charters and you will find yourself no longer =
invited.<br>
<br>
I've seen the pictures on the Wahoo and other web sites of rigs like I
mentioned below and have seen them with my own two eyes and I beg to =
disagree.
Occasionally NE groups will find there way down here (Virginia Beach) =
on open
trips and the stuff they wear is hard to believe.<br>
<br>
As we have discussed on this list there are people who have been diving =
the
"old way" for the last 15 or 20 years and in all probability =
if you
stuck them in a DIR rig they would not be happy or find it lacking for =
some
unfounded reason or other. The real problem is that these people, =
apparently
born with an angel on their shoulder, try to press their fucked up =
convoluted
rigs on the newbies as being the thing to do.<br>
<br>
I have leaned of the "code of silence" on dive boats. If you =
dare
look at someone's rig and point out this and that it's a sure way to be =
branded
as an asshole know-it-all. The result is usually a mule-like reaction =
in the
opposite direction. The more effective route is to do yourself up in =
your nice,
clean DIR rig and then come up from your dive with a big grin on your =
face from
all the fun you had and all the sights you saw. Then you listen to the =
old
timey guy say how this or that part of his rig broke or otherwise =
fucked up and
how they heroically extradited themselves from what was surely a fatal
situation if it were any other diver. Well, I guess "fun" is =
defined
differently by different divers.<br>
<br>
Jim<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Learn About Trimix at =
http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From: </span></b>"Tony =
Thomas"
<tonythomas@ny*.rr*.co*><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Reply-To: </span></b>"Tony
=
Thomas"
<tonythomas@ny*.rr*.co*><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Mon, 11 Jun
2001 =
18:08:48
-0400<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b>"Jim
Cobb"
<cobber@ci*.co*>, <NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*>,
<techdiver@aquanaut.com><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: NY DCS =
hit</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:
auto;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jim - <br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Honestly, to the best of my knowledge, =
nobody
has ever been blacklisted, or fears being blacklisted, for telling the
"true story" about any diving incident up here. I've only =
ever heard
of people being blacklisted from boats up here for doing things like =
drifting
deco without shooting a bag, repeatedly coming up off the line with =
students,
etc. Of course, you may have different information than I do. =
As
for the demented way some people dive up here, I haven't seen the =
anchor chain
ankle weight thing, but yeah, some people up here do some pretty wacky
things... but from what I've seen, it sure isn't particular to =
the North
East. Take a look around the parking lot at Ginnie or Peacock =
sometime,
or hop on a charter boat in North Carolina. Or better yet, have a =
chat
with legendary Ginnie map maker Jeff Hancock <g>. <br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Tony <br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'><br>
Nick, there are divers up there who are terrified of being blacklisted =
by your
dive boats should it be known that they leaked the true story.<br>
<br>
So I get e-mails from folks who don't want to be persecuted by you NE =
divers
but still want folks to know about the demented way some people dive up =
there.<br>
<br>
You know, using anchor chain as ankle weights, independent doubles with =
no
backplates, horse collars or no BC's at all, Navy dive tables, centre =
mounted
ponies, and other bizarre, oldtimey stuff which is proven to kill =
people over
and over yet is still used up there without a thought.<br>
<br>
Jim<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Learn About Trimix at =
http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:2.0in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From: =
</span></b><NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Sun, 10 Jun
2001 =
10:47:52
EDT<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: =
</span></b>cobber@ci*.co*,
techdiver@aquanaut.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Fwd: NY DCS
=
hit</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><b><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:
</span></font></b><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'>NICKSKYDIV@ao*.co*<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Sun, 10 Jun
2001 =
09:23:11
EDT<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: =
</span></b>cobber@ci*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: NY DCS =
hit<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>Jim, <br>
<br>
What news do you listen to or read? <br>
<br>
I would think that someone like yourself with a fine, tenured diving =
career <br>
would get the real facts before making themselves look like a fool on =
the <br>
internet. <br>
<br>
For your information, the diver you commented on has never been on =
Techdiver <br>
and never took part in last years "Wahoo Wars" <br>
Furthermore he does not own a "double bladder" OMS BC. <br>
<br>
Please do us all a favor before you feel the need to spread rumors, =
<br>
sensationalize a story or slander good people, get the facts before you =
react. <br>
<br>
NICK</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> =
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></f
ont>=
</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
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auto;margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
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color=3Dblack><span =
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ont>=
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