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Ed (the original poster) is not a Troll. I know Ed, he's a real person. Green but learning He's from the Lake George area in upstate NY. If anyone knows a good instructor in his area I think he's more than willing to meet the person. One of the biggest problems with lots of instructors is like you say, get them in, get them out, follow what's in the book and don't deviate, even if there is a better or safer way. Unfortunately when you are learning, this is what you have to deal with. I think many of us had the luck to learn the fucked up way and live through it to see a better way. Many people that are learning want to know the better way but hear so many differing opinions on stuff that they get confused. Look at PADI when you got your advanced certification. They take you to what 80-100 foot and have you do a math problem? It's real easy for some to focus on one thing when slightly narked but when the shit hits the fan forget it. I remember when I did my math problem, I did it faster by a few seconds at depth then on the surface..... Anyway, people are trying to learn and hopefully they learn the right way. Until there is a higher standard that ALL instructors follow, you have to weed out the crappy ones by knowing the correct way. I talk to Ed quite frequently. He knows from me as well as others what is the right way and what is the wrong way. I'm always encouraging him NOT to take my word as the final decision but to ask other people who know more than me for their opinion as well. That's what he's doing when he's been told by me and others, as well as what he's experienced doesn't make sense to him. Example, think about it using the subject of narcosis. Plenty or people think narcosis is when you "feel drunk". Bull shit! It's at any point where you are at any point more impaired than you would be at the surface. That's why you can do a dive to 130 on air and "feel fine" but still be narked cause you are not as sharp at 130 as you are at the surface. Things like this confuse people I think. They hear people saying 100 or 110 max depth for air cause deeper you are narked. Then you have people saying "I'm good on air till 200!" Then people dive to 130 and "feel fine" and think, everyone must be wrong, it just doesn't make sense. Others are "good to 200", I "feel fine" at 130 but Jim's saying no deeper than 110. At first glance without really understanding it, you'd come to the conclusion that Jim's wrong cause based on what I'm taught, what others tell me and what I have experienced myself, I'm not narced at deeper than 110 like Jim suggests (cause I "feel fine" at 130).... That is why people ask seemingly simple questions! OK, off soapbox now! :) Art. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 6:10 PM To: Paul Braunbehrens; Tech Diver Subject: Re: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help To be honest with you I thought this message was a troll, I had no idea the fellow was serious. But the point here is, and I keep stressing this, it is YOUR ass. Nobody cares about your ass but you, never forget that. There are 20 Billion people out there locked in a battle for survival and whether you live or die won't make a tit of difference to 99.99999% of them. There are instructors out there who turn the crank, move 'em in and move 'em out. That's how they pay the rent and buy the food, that's how they survive. If they loose a student here or there, no big deal, the poor slobs signed the multi-page disclaimer. Let's face it, this is a dangerous sport and for one to approach it with anything but a deadly serious attitude is nuts. For one to be up enough on the dangers of deep air and do it anyway for the sake of a piece of plastic with their face printed on it is beyond nuts. And the issue of monies lost or not pales in comparison to whether you will live or not and is hardly an issue unless you truly are nuts. Think about it. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > From: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:45:56 -0700 > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Subject: Re: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help > > I think this is why people don't come here for advice. The guy > already understands that deep air is bad, he realizes what he did is > stupid, and he is asking for help. Let's lighten up on him, eh? > > Jim Cobb wrote: > ~ >> Forced my ass, did somebody put a fucking gun to your head? This >> email is so stupid, I can hardly comprehend it. 110 EAD on deep >> dives is the limit, 100 better. Who is this instrokter of yours? Why >> did you stick with him even though you propose to know better? Did >> you enjoy being narced out of your gourd? Did you even remember the >> dive? This is like saying the bartender FORCED you to drink those >> shots of vodka and the FORCED you to drive home. Do you want to die? >> Is death what you are looking for? If it is then let dive >> instrokters FORCE you to do deep air but don' t come back and haunt >> me about it. >> >> Jim >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ >> >> >> From: NyWrecker@ao*.co* >> Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:17:17 EDT >> To: cobber@ci*.co* >> Subject: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help >> >> >> Ive only ben diving for about 3 years.Im VERRY aware of this deep air shit >> BUT i have asked a few people for a limit and cant get an answer.To start off >> the rec limit is 130 on air.Last summer i was FORCED to go to 150-160-3 times >> and 180 on it.The MOD on the 180 was 220.I know stupid BUT it was with a >> TDI-IANTD instructor so what do you expect.I tried to get him to let me use a >> mix but he wouldnt and i thought he wouldnt but i had to try.So my Q is >> this.What is the max for air and what would you use past that depth and to >> what depth???Im not interested in going deeper than say 250 max.Them 300-400 >> and deeper dives you guys do aint for me more power to you.Im impresed but it >> just aint for me.Thanks >> Ed > > > -- > Paul B. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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