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Responded directly to me, not the list. Just forwarding. Art. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Elmore [mailto:elmorec@at*.ne*] Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:41 AM To: Paltz, Art Subject: Re: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help Ed, Two things; Instructor: Bob Sherwood. GUE instructor in upstate NY. He may have to drive a bit (big deal- I drove 400 miles to get taught by JJ and people fly from all over the world for decent instruction). Deep air: I've made an offer on this list several times and never had a taker: One game of chess at 200', you're on air, I'm on mix. $1000 on the table, winner takes all. So now where are all the "good on air to 200'" mouths? I'm not even that good at chess but it takes a higher brain function which is the first to go. OK, second to go; aparantly, the first to go is the brains self check process that tells if it's OK or not. I'll bet that if I made this offer to some deep air advocates at 100' I'd get a lot more accepting it. C. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*> To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:42 PM Subject: RE: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help > Ed (the original poster) is not a Troll. I know Ed, he's a real person. > Green but learning > > He's from the Lake George area in upstate NY. If anyone knows a good > instructor in his area I think he's more than willing to meet the person. > > One of the biggest problems with lots of instructors is like you say, get > them in, get them out, follow what's in the book and don't deviate, even if > there is a better or safer way. Unfortunately when you are learning, this > is what you have to deal with. I think many of us had the luck to learn the > fucked up way and live through it to see a better way. Many people that are > learning want to know the better way but hear so many differing opinions on > stuff that they get confused. Look at PADI when you got your advanced > certification. They take you to what 80-100 foot and have you do a math > problem? It's real easy for some to focus on one thing when slightly narked > but when the shit hits the fan forget it. I remember when I did my math > problem, I did it faster by a few seconds at depth then on the surface..... > Anyway, people are trying to learn and hopefully they learn the right way. > Until there is a higher standard that ALL instructors follow, you have to > weed out the crappy ones by knowing the correct way. > > I talk to Ed quite frequently. He knows from me as well as others what is > the right way and what is the wrong way. I'm always encouraging him NOT to > take my word as the final decision but to ask other people who know more > than me for their opinion as well. That's what he's doing when he's been > told by me and others, as well as what he's experienced doesn't make sense > to him. > > Example, think about it using the subject of narcosis. Plenty or people > think narcosis is when you "feel drunk". Bull shit! It's at any point > where you are at any point more impaired than you would be at the surface. > That's why you can do a dive to 130 on air and "feel fine" but still be > narked cause you are not as sharp at 130 as you are at the surface. Things > like this confuse people I think. They hear people saying 100 or 110 max > depth for air cause deeper you are narked. Then you have people saying "I'm > good on air till 200!" Then people dive to 130 and "feel fine" and think, > everyone must be wrong, it just doesn't make sense. Others are "good to > 200", I "feel fine" at 130 but Jim's saying no deeper than 110. At first > glance without really understanding it, you'd come to the conclusion that > Jim's wrong cause based on what I'm taught, what others tell me and what I > have experienced myself, I'm not narced at deeper than 110 like Jim suggests > (cause I "feel fine" at 130).... That is why people ask seemingly simple > questions! > > OK, off soapbox now! :) > > Art. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 6:10 PM > To: Paul Braunbehrens; Tech Diver > Subject: Re: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help > > To be honest with you I thought this message was a troll, I had no idea the > fellow was serious. > > But the point here is, and I keep stressing this, it is YOUR ass. Nobody > cares about your ass but you, never forget that. There are 20 Billion people > out there locked in a battle for survival and whether you live or die won't > make a tit of difference to 99.99999% of them. > > There are instructors out there who turn the crank, move 'em in and move 'em > out. That's how they pay the rent and buy the food, that's how they survive. > If they loose a student here or there, no big deal, the poor slobs signed > the multi-page disclaimer. > > Let's face it, this is a dangerous sport and for one to approach it with > anything but a deadly serious attitude is nuts. For one to be up enough on > the dangers of deep air and do it anyway for the sake of a piece of plastic > with their face printed on it is beyond nuts. And the issue of monies lost > or not pales in comparison to whether you will live or not and is hardly an > issue unless you truly are nuts. > > Think about it. > > Jim > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > From: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:45:56 -0700 > > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > Subject: Re: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help > > > > I think this is why people don't come here for advice. The guy > > already understands that deep air is bad, he realizes what he did is > > stupid, and he is asking for help. Let's lighten up on him, eh? > > > > Jim Cobb wrote: > > ~ > >> Forced my ass, did somebody put a fucking gun to your head? This > >> email is so stupid, I can hardly comprehend it. 110 EAD on deep > >> dives is the limit, 100 better. Who is this instrokter of yours? Why > >> did you stick with him even though you propose to know better? Did > >> you enjoy being narced out of your gourd? Did you even remember the > >> dive? This is like saying the bartender FORCED you to drink those > >> shots of vodka and the FORCED you to drive home. Do you want to die? > >> Is death what you are looking for? If it is then let dive > >> instrokters FORCE you to do deep air but don' t come back and haunt > >> me about it. > >> > >> Jim > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > >> > >> > >> From: NyWrecker@ao*.co* > >> Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:17:17 EDT > >> To: cobber@ci*.co* > >> Subject: Its on Deep air Taboo i know BUT please help > >> > >> > >> Ive only ben diving for about 3 years.Im VERRY aware of this deep air > shit > >> BUT i have asked a few people for a limit and cant get an answer.To start > off > >> the rec limit is 130 on air.Last summer i was FORCED to go to 150-160-3 > times > >> and 180 on it.The MOD on the 180 was 220.I know stupid BUT it was with a > >> TDI-IANTD instructor so what do you expect.I tried to get him to let me > use a > >> mix but he wouldnt and i thought he wouldnt but i had to try.So my Q is > >> this.What is the max for air and what would you use past that depth and > to > >> what depth???Im not interested in going deeper than say 250 max.Them > 300-400 > >> and deeper dives you guys do aint for me more power to you.Im impresed > but it > >> just aint for me.Thanks > >> Ed > > > > > > -- > > Paul B. > > > > > -- > Send mail for the 'techdiver' mailing list to 'techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to 'techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- > Send mail for the 'techdiver' mailing list to 'techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to 'techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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