Paul,

If look at the overwhelming majority of Cobb's posts he isn't really an
antagonizer and he really doesn't have the flame bombs at his side.  That
being said, alot of us on this list throw a few bombs here and there and I
think what Jim was pointing out was that NO ONE in the entire world could
force me to go to 200' on air..

I'm from the old school and I was a big deep air guy way back..  But that
was long before GUE came around and frankly back then it was all we knew..
GUE has lead the way to eliminating the deep air nonsense so when you have a
guy admitting that he has only been diving for three years there is NO
acceptable excuse for *being forced* to go to 200'+ on air..  You can't
force someone to risk their own life if that person has done any due
diligence..

Point 1, if he was uncomfortable doing a 200' dive, plain and simple don't
do it;

Point 2, if he knew there was a better way to do it, than shame on him for
agreeing to do it, notwithstanding the notion that he was *forced*..

Part of the problem Paul is that there are way too many people out there
that are still teaching, and in some cases demanding, that students take a
deep air class.  That is training divers to kill themselves under a guise of
simply selling a C-card..  You won't see alot of kind words coming out of
those that know better...

The original poster asked a question about limits, in other words how deep
on air..  I think it was Pina that came back with 100' and then mix
thereafter..  The answer was given politely and so were the resulting follow
up's, but after a few exchanges it ventures into the same tired arguments
because the same stupid instructors and agencies are advancing the same
stupid ideas...

In today's world anyone diving deeper than 100' on air is stupid..  Anyone
teaching deep air is an idiot and any student that doesn't do his homework
before jeopardizing his life deserves what he gets..  The information is
readily available and at some point people have to take some responsibility
before they get *forced* to go to 200'+ on air...

Later
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Braunbehrens" <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
To: "MHK" <mhkane@pr*.ne*>; <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>;
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: deep air Please help


> Mike, I agree with you, but there are two problems.  One is that they
> might not be aware of the alternatives (i.e. GUE), the other is that
> if people get slammed the way Jim just slammed this guy, they might
> not *want* to look at the alternatives.  I look at this as life
> support, and I'm not about to risk my life because one instructor
> happens to be nicer than another.  But most people simply want to
> have a good time, and if they get flamed they'll go somewhere else.
>
> There's a time for flaming people, and there's a time for welcoming
> someone who's looking for the right way.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
>
> MHK wrote:
> ~
> >Paul,
> >
> >The answer is simple..  When you get an instrokter like that the student
> >needs only to click on the following link
> >
> >www.gue.com
> >
> >No one needs to put up with the deep air shit anymore..  Most of us have
had
> >no choice in the past when IANTD and TDI forced the deep air shit on us,
but
> >those days are long gone..  If a student is too lazy to do due diligence
and
> >get proper training from a proper instructor than diving deep may not be
the
> >wisest course of action...
> >
> >Later
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Paul Braunbehrens" <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> >To: <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:39 AM
> >Subject: Re: deep air Please help
> >
> >
> >>  The problem is that people aren't aware of the options.  They have an
> >>  instructor that they've been working with, whom they trust, and then
> >>  the guy says "OK, the next step is to do Deep Air".  You try to
> >>  argue, but the guy is adamant because he wants to make money on one
> >>  more class.  You figure he must know his stuff, and you do want to
> >>  progress to trimix, so you feel you have no choice.  It's classic,
> >>  and it's criminal.
> >>
> >>  <ScottBonis@ao*.co*> wrote:
> >>  ~
> >>  >Hi Ed,
> >>  >
> >>  >I'm having difficulty understanding your message.  How did an
instructor
> >>  >"FORCE" you to dive to 180 on air?  Did he physically restrain you
and
> >pull
> >>  >you down to that depth?
> >>  >
> >>  >I think you need to grow up and start to take some responsibility for
> >your
> >>  >own decisions.  Yes IMHO, the instructor was wrong.  Yes IMHO, the
dive
> >was
> >>  >stupid.  But yes, you choose to make the dive.  So consider yourself
> >lucky
> >>  >that you dodged the bullet this time and learn from it.
> >>  >
> >>  >Take care and dive safe,       Scott
> >>  >
> >>  >Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw through the
restraints
> >and
> >>  >scramble up out of the pit.
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >In a message dated 5/31/2001 10:00 AM NyWrecker@ao*.co* writes:
> >>  >
> >>  ><< ... Ive only ben diving for about 3 years.Im VERRY aware of this
deep
> >air
> >>  >shit BUT i have asked a few people for a limit and cant get an
answer.To
> >>  >start off the rec limit is 130 on air.Last summer i was FORCED to go
to
> >>  >150-160-3 times and 180 on it.The MOD on the 180 was 220.I know
stupid
> >BUT it
> >>  >was with a TDI-IANTD instructor so what do you expect.I tried to get
him
> >to
> >>  >let me use a mix but he wouldnt and i thought he wouldnt but i had to
> >try...
> >>  >>>
> >>  >--
> >>  >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>  >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  Paul B.
> >>  --
> >>  Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>  Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>
> --
> Paul B.

--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]