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Hi Seth- >However, I was looking at the AUE website, and noticed that part of your >"slogan" reads that your group is "dedicated to the research, exploration, >documentation, and preservation of submerged cultural resources." If you >want to bill your organization as a group of individuals dedicated to the >"preservation of submerged cultural resources", you need to expand the >scope of your exploration dives in order to preserve the information >potential available on wrecks that were not intentionally sunk in order to >make an artificial reef (e.g. the Duane). Response: The AUE website used to focus primarily on "natural" wrecks and excluded artificial reefs. However, down here in Florida many of the deeper sites are artificial and there was a demand for that information. In regard to expanding the scope of our exploration dives, we attempt to gather as much information and data as possible, given the limited amount of time we have on these deep wrecks. If you saw my artifact collection I could tell you exactly from what wreck they were recovered from and where on the wreck they were found. I have drafted numerous maps of various wrecksites. Additionally, I have basic data slips for the artifacts in my files that list what particular wreck, date, depth, location, and other notations. This protocol is similar to basic/rudimentary scientific collection procedures. Also, images of the artifacts prior to conservation are generally available. For projects that we volunteer for and that are funded and coordinated by a project archaeologist (such as the USS Monitor Expedition) we generally take 2-3 point measurements of the artifact in situ to capture its location within the site, capture video and still images of the artifact in situ, sketch the artifact in situ, and then finally recover the artifact after consulting with the project archaeologist. While the intergrity of the data is more robust, it presents a heavy work burden to recover any particular artifact. In contrast, AUE is self-funded. We do not have the luxury of financial backing to allow us adequate time to thoroughly document a site. We do the best we can with available resources. We then present this information -- free of charge -- to all those that wish to view it on the AUE website. Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor energy to add every item of worth to the website. I do my best to present some basic information that would be of value to other divers. These files are constantly updated. I challenge anyone to present a more extensive shipwreck resource online and free of charge. [SNIP] >To say a group is dedicated to the "preservation of submerged cultural >resources" is a tall order to fill. Response: It sounded good at the time <g>. Many feel that recovery of artifacts contradicts this statement. However, preservation does not necessarily mean "don't touch." Many more individuals have learned more of this particular wreck, let alone the hundreds that we have data on that can be found on the AUE website, by reading our dive reports and seeing images of recovered artifacts than if we simply dove the wrecks and did nothing. Furthermore, when we make presentations to diveclubs and the like, just about everyone likes the experience of "touching history" and seeing the artifacts up close. As stated before, these wrecks are very remote and, frankly, there are not people lining up to do these dives. Again, we do the best that we can. I don't feel that I need to constantly validate myself or my team from critics. Our actions are not illegal. We only wish to pass on our knowledge and benefit others in this sport that we all thoroughly enjoy. [SNIP] >What needs to be added to this is maps of where these artifacts you're >finding are coming from, information on what other types of artifacts are >being found in association with those you are actually able to bring up, >and how the artifacts are arranged. Reponse: See above. I am particularly fascinated by the "pathology" of shipwreck deterioration; I like to document how a vessel transforms into its current state over its many years of immersion. [SNIP] The documents rarely live up to what is actually found at a site, shipwreck or otherwise, and I would imagine there are very few documents specifically focusing on the day-to-day lives of those who lived aboard ships such as the Rhein during this period of time. Response: The archives on this particular vessel are generally very good. The parent shipping company has complete documentation of the M/V Rhein. [NOTE: the ship is the "M/V Rhein" and not "Rhein Hamburg"; this error orginated from a book published a few years ago]. The sinking was covered in the NY Times and in US Navy correspondence. No personal artifacts have been found to date, most likely due to the violent fire that broke out just before its sinking. In fact, I just saw a picture of the bell after initial cleaning and even the lip of the bell is distorted which we speculate may be due to the intense heat of the fire. I understand and recognize your message though. Other vessels are less documented and each artifact tells a story. Again, we do the best we can. To get corny: if not us, who? In not now, when? These sites have a finite lifespan. For example, we have video from the initial dives on the Araby Maid in the late 80s. When compared to our video shot last year you can see a great deal of change and deterioration. Furthermore, we could even see a drastic change in the stern around the steering station just from last year as upper portions are succumbing to gravity and dropping off into the sand. It is important to note that just because we recover artifacts off these wrecks does not mean that we would recover artifacts off any wreck. This issue is not black and white. Different environments allow for different management strategies. AUE fully supports the prohibition of artifact collection in the Great Lakes and similar areas due to the relatively stable environment. Other regions such as the Baltic Sea and the fjords of Norway also offer extended stability of shipwreck sites. However, the exposed tropical ocean waters in Florida and along the US east coast where we play are a very different beast. Cheers, Michael C. Barnette Association of Underwater Explorers Because it's there...somewhere...maybe. http://www.mikey.net/aue _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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