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Scott ,the legacy of Gilliam and Mount lies in the holding of deep air diving records ( Tom was one of the "pioneers" there ) and the rest of their "accomplishments" are not material for this list. Let's say they did not know any better and so what. The thing that bothers Cobb and the rest of us is the ongoing inability and unwillingness to move onward and upward with the learning curve. Using their "position" of "respect" to misdirect is not now a worthy endeavor. Failing to learn is not worthy of respect. I could go on, but in truth some of these guys need a good kick in the balls, and maybe their hearts and minds will follow. I do not need respect or protection: I can argue my case successfully and they can not, because they have no case - ever. I am sick of hearing about the latest gimmick that Tom thinks is so clever that he just started using yesterday but is perfectly willing to recommend it to anyone, and as Jim Cobb very accurately said, Tom has a long history of this going back to square lights and so forth. If there is anything that I tell anyone that turns out to be bs, then somebody come on hear and point it out - won't happen, and if I do something which later proves to be superceded by a better way, I am the first to say so. The cumulative track record of IANTD and TDI is not something that commands any respect at all, in fact, it should require jail time in my opinion, and if you want a cross section of real nonsense, notice the misinformed baloney that comes out of some of these "instructors" when they post to this list. -----Original Message----- From: ScottBonis@ao*.co* [mailto:ScottBonis@ao*.co*] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 5:22 PM To: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: Re: Trimix Computers Hi Jim, You may recall that you and I have butted heads a number of times in the past, as well as agreeing on various subjects also. But I see another head butting coming on. I have on numerous occasions chastised posters on the net for saying derogatory things about Trey. Not ever for arguing about his opinions or advice (which are usually pretty sound), but for showing a lack of respect for his accomplishments and dedication to the sport of diving. There comes a point that even if I disagree with what is being said, I must respect the speaker if he has earned a certain position in the community. A freshman doesn't challenge a full professor. He or she may question, but never accuse or direct. After the freshman has graduated and contributed to the community, then he or she may argue. Now I must request that you display a greater respect for several of the people in the dive community who don't happen to be associated with the WKPP or GUE. Tom Mount, whether or not you agree with his dive techniques, is one of the clear leaders and outstanding figures in the technical diving community. He at IANTD, along with Ed Betts at ANDI, Bret Gilliam at TDI, et. al. for example, are, whether or not you choose to accept it, among the true pioneers in technical diving. These people and others like them, are our teachers and have devoted major portions of their lives to advancing diving techniques and making the sport safer for all of us. Perhaps you now feel that some of the information being presented by these organizations has been superseded by new data that points in a new direction. This may be so. But it does not give you the right or even simply permission, to forget that these people and organizations have persevered and should have earned your respect. Trey, by virtue of his unique position as a nonprofessional whose accomplishments, experience and contributions to the body of technical diving knowledge have earned him the respect of divers worldwide, happens to have a confrontational communication style. Because of his position I, and most others who wish to learn, overlook this as a personal negative. It is his way and we accept him for what he is and what he has to offer. And we are appreciative for his time and efforts. But make no mistake that you have certainly not earned a similar position. In my opinion, you have no business whatever telling Tom Mount or the others, what they SHOULD be doing. They are the teachers and you are the student. They tell you. You listen quietly, ask for more information, choose what is right for you and make your own decisions. But you do not pretend to be on the level of your teachers and direct them. That is pure ego. Let's not forget that we live in an ordered society where true respect is earned over many years of accomplishment and service, not simply by who can yell the loudest or type the most curse words into his or her computer. I consider myself really fortunate to have had the opportunity to learn from individuals of this caliber. Jim, I think that you ought to consider this carefully and perhaps modify your approach when communicating with these folks. And I need to say here that although this message is addressed to you Jim, I am actually also speaking to a number of the other posters on this list. But then OTOH, this is simply one diver's opinion. Take care and dive safe, Scott Some weeks it's just not worth the effort to gnaw through the restraints and scramble up out of the pit. In a message dated 5/23/01 9:12:32 PM, cobber@ci*.co* writes: << Tom- Maybe not but there are plenty of diveshops out there who would love to sell some of these high margin pieces of shit and saying what you said below is about as close to a promotion as you can get. Did you purchase yours or was it a promo? <snip> Tom, as I recall you used to stuff the long hose, use bungee wings, use steel stages, dive deep air, etc. Don't make this mistake too. >> -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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