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Note that I said modify your gradient factor not "blow off 5 mins of your deco". As I see it from this list alone, OMS should be getting 21 orders for their $1900 computer, that comes to about $40,000. Figure a profit of probably $1300 per, so that's $27,000 profit from this list alone. I'll tell you what, I see the logic of trimix computers now, what an idiot I am. On another note, I see that Cockring won a Navy contract for supplying Navy divers UDT, SEALs etc. with dive computers. Hoooobooy. You guy's go ahead and get your trimix computers, I'll stick with my tables= .. Just make sure it has a gauge mode. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > From: terry michael <OEA51@go*.co*> > Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 05:19:12 -0700 (PDT) > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.= net>, > David Shimell <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, Ray Blanchard <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, T= ech > Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, Dell Motes > <dell@di*.co*> > Subject: Re: Re: Trimix Computers >=20 > As for feeling better after the dives it has more to do with proper profi= le > gas etc. then blowing off 5 mins of a 40 min deco. If you=92re doing all th= is > with in the Buehlmann ceiling you=92re going to be reasonably safe in my > opinion. I don=92t believe you can tweak the consumer version of these prog= rams > to go beyond the actual Buehlmann M-value. >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jim Cobb"<cobber@ci*.co*> > To: "Tom Mount"<TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, "David > Shimell"<David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard"<rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech > Diver"<techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Cc: "Alan Crew"<alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net, "Dell > Motes"<dell@di*.co*> > Date: Fri May 25 11:55:53 PDT 2001 > Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >=20 >> Tom, look if you are asking if I sit on the hang line and say "hey, wond= er I >> I'd get bent if I surface now". Or "hey, I didn't get bent on that last >> dive, think I'll crank the gradient all the way to the other side and se= e if >> I get bent then". >>=20 >> No, that's not what I do. You are being a bit churlish here, aren't you?= You >> start with the default of the tables program you are using and see how y= ou >> feel. Feeling a bit tired after the dive? Not quite right? Then modify t= he >> gradient, start the stops a little deeper, stay on the 02 a little longe= r. >>=20 >> You do the dive and feel fine? Great. Crank back on the gradient a littl= e >> and see what the effect is on your deco time and do the dive. Then see h= ow >> you feel. For most people you will be doing this continuously during you= r >> diving career. >>=20 >> I simply cannot believe I am discussing truly basic stuff like this with= Tom >> Mount, I really cannot. >>=20 >> I guess from your school, Tom, you go get your Alladin Pro or your Navy >> tables, jump in the water, slavishly adhere to it's ridiculous deco >> schedule, get out of the water, feel like shit and then declare it a >> successful dive. Then do it again. What do you call this technique? >>=20 >> Jim >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ >>=20 >>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> >>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> >>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:17:24 -0400 >>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell" >>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Diver= " >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, "Dell Mo= tes" >>> <dell@di*.co*> >>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >>>=20 >>> To Jim Cobb >>> Jim, You stated: " Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-= dive >>> calculations.It up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your o= wn >>> body finding >>> out what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indication= s of >>> your limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried >>> lungs,etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't >>> imagine not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. " >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> So I guess then based on your statement , that there must be two types = or >>> definitions of DIR >>>=20 >>> 1. Doing It Right ( the one most people are familiar with) >>>=20 >>> 2. or as someone else has stated instead Doing It Ridiculsly >>>=20 >>> Sounds like you follow the second one >>>=20 >>> So which DIR do you really support >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Now to answer your last email >>>=20 >>> First: Do you guys ever read. I did not mention anything about my dives >>>=20 >>> Second: I will tell you I do not go out and bend myself on purpose just= to >>> see what my threshold is on a given day, like you advocate >>>=20 >>> Third: You stated you deliberately bend yourself then back off. Now tha= t >>> cannot be considered a logical or intelligent action. >>>=20 >>> Fourth: I would imagine many if not most divers who do a lot of deco di= ves >>> have had niggles >>>=20 >>> Fifth: I hope most of these people do not deliberately bend themselves >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> >>> To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "David Shimell" >>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tech Diver= " >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> >>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:08 PM >>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> So what you're telling me, Tom, that in all of your 10,000 dives you'v= e >>>> never had any indications of sub-clinical DCS at all? Every single one= of >>>> your decompression dives you've done, especially those deep air specia= ls, >>>> have been perfect dives? What a load of crap. >>>>=20 >>>> Z, here's more survey material for you. A show of hands of people who >>>> actually do staged deco dives who have never had niggle one, a perfect >>> dive >>>> every time. >>>>=20 >>>> George you weren't kidding, were you? >>>>=20 >>>> Jim >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ >>>>=20 >>>>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> >>>>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> >>>>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:49:33 -0400 >>>>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell" >>>>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Div= er" >>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> >>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >>>>>=20 >>>>> So you deliberately go to the point of getting mild DCS and then back >>> off . >>>>> That is really intelligent Cobb >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*> >>>>> To: "David Shimell" <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard" >>>>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "Tech Diver= " >>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:22 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-dive calculation= s. >>> It >>>>>> up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your own body findi= ng >>> out >>>>>> what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications= of >>>>> your >>>>>> limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried >>> lungs, >>>>>> etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't >>> imagine >>>>>> not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. I dare say that if >>> you >>>>> do >>>>>> it enough you know what your deco is intuitively in certain standard >>>>>> profiles. Why anybody would want to cripple themselves with a wrist >>> deco >>>>>> computer is beyond me. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> From: David Shimell <David.Shimell@ta*.co*> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:50:49 +0100 >>>>>>> To: "'Jim Cobb'" <cobber@ci*.co*>, Ray Blanchard >>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, >>>>> Tom >>>>>>> Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, Tech Diver >>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>, >>>>>>> "FLTechDiver@mikey.net"<FLTechDiver@mikey.net> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Trimix Computers >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> It is as simple as the desire to have things easy, with little or n= o >>>>>>> intellectual effort expended. Nothing actually wrong with that if = the >>>>> product >>>>>>> delivers to goods and the individual is prepared to pay the price. >>> The >>>>>>> problem occurs when the product does not deliver the goods - keeps = the >>>>>>> individual in-water longer than necessary or fails. Suddenly, what >>>>> would be >>>>>>> routine dive to BT users may become a stressful CF, or in the most >>>>> extreme of >>>>>>> circumstances kill the individual. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> David Shimell >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Jim Cobb [SMTP:cobber@ci*.co*] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:28 AM >>>>>>> To: Ray Blanchard; Tom Mount; Tech Diver >>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew; FLTechDiver@mikey.net >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> << File: ATT00048.htm >> All I can say is Ray, Why? All the stuff y= ou >>>>> relate >>>>>>> here with the added >>>>>>> bonus of the "most complicated interface in dive computerdom". Excu= se >>> me >>>>> but >>>>>>> I do believe that there are more important things to be keeping tra= ck >>> of >>>>> on >>>>>>> a trimix dive than trying to figure out the most complicated interf= ace >>>>> ever >>>>>>> strapped on a wrist. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> What advantage does this $1900 monstrosity offer over a bottom time= r, >>>>> tables >>>>>>> and a solid understanding of deco that only comes from experience? >>> This >>>>> is >>>>>>> pure geek stuff, hoypaloy which adds nothing to your dive but more >>>>>>> complexity, task loading and failure points. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> From: Ray Blanchard <rkbl@uf*.ed*> >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:36:09 -0400 >>>>>>> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*> >>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Hi Alan, Tom & the rest of the list, >>>>>>> Thanks for the informative posts from folks regarding trimix comput= ers >>>>> in >>>>>>> particular the Abyss Explorer and the Phoenix VR3 as well as the >>> limited >>>>>>> application of the NiTek3. While not a trimix computer diver, I've >>> been >>>>>>> following this area closely for several years and dreaming of ownin= g >>>>> one. >>>>>>> This past DEMA show, however, was especially interesting in regards= to >>>>> the >>>>>>> VR3 which is the only trimix computer that I've seen in private >>>>> individuals' >>>>>>> hands (see Z's post regarding the Explorer). Prior to the show my >>>>>>> information was limited to that from OMS, the U.S. distributor of t= he >>>>> VR3, >>>>>>> and a friend who dove one and found the user interface rather compl= ex. >>>>>>> While visiting the OMS booth at DEMA, I spoke at length to Kevin Gu= rr >>>>> and >>>>>>> another member of the VR3 development team and discovered that OMS'= s >>>>>>> literature on this computer fails to do justice to the VR3's featur= es >>> in >>>>> a >>>>>>> big way. Since Tom with his hands-on experience didn't expound on >>> them, >>>>>>> here are a few of the highlights that are not on the OMS brochures: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -Phoenix has a web presence ( www.vr3.co.uk ) including an electron= ic >>>>> copy >>>>>>> of the VR3 user manual >>>>>>> -PC interface comes with the dive unit >>>>>>> -user changeable standard batteries >>>>>>> -never locks out upon deco violations >>>>>>> -dive simulation mode allows contingency tables to be generated fro= m >>> the >>>>>>> dive unit on its own >>>>>>> -capable of complete gas control/programming even while on the dive >>>>>>> -back lighting >>>>>>> -adjustable conservancy/safety factor >>>>>>> -reed switches (mentioned) mean no case penetration for buttons. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Overall this unit appears to have tremendous flexibility but that a= lso >>>>>>> makes for the most complicated user interface that I've seen on a d= ive >>>>>>> computer. Still, while I'm not a technophile, I think that I could >>>>> learn to >>>>>>> use this computer and I definitely would like to get my hands on on= e. >>>>> The 2 >>>>>>> biggest down sides to this unit are that OMS is marketing the OC >>> trimix >>>>>>> model with an MSRP of $1900 and second, as Tom mentioned, it's >>>>> conservative >>>>>>> because it's based on the ProPlanner algorithm. I know that some of= my >>>>>>> trimix diving friends down here in FL find ProPlanner to be a littl= e >>> too >>>>>>> conservative for their tastes even when it's set for zero conservat= ion >>>>> (for >>>>>>> some reason they want to get out of the water faster ;-) however, >>> Tom's >>>>>>> recommendation for a special order may resolve this issue. Of cour= se >>>>> the >>>>>>> biggest point I've encountered for this trimix computer is that it'= s >>> in >>>>>>> production and available now. >>>>>>> Safe diving, >>>>>>> Ray >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>>> To contact the list administrator, email >>>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* >>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: >>>>>> listserv@mi*.ne* >>>>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type: >>>>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver >>>>>=20 >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>> To contact the list administrator, email >>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: >>>>> listserv@mi*.ne* >>>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type: >>>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> To contact the list administrator, email >>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne* >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: >>>> listserv@mi*.ne* >>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type: >>>> unsubscribe FLTechDiver >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________ > GO.com Mail =20 > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >=20 >=20 >=20 -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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