Does this mean I won?

   Jim
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:16:00 -0400
> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Diver"
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, "Dell
Motes"
> <dell@di*.co*>
> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
> 
> Jim
> 
> This thread is getting boring so I will drop out
> But I did not ask anything you stated your policy and I responded
> 
> Anyway if you guys want to continue this do so but take me off the reply to
> list as it will save wear and tear on my delete button
> 
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
> To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "David Shimell"
> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tech Diver"
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>; "Dell
Motes"
> <dell@di*.co*>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
> 
> 
>> Tom, look if you are asking if I sit on the hang line and say "hey, wonder
> I
>> I'd get bent if I surface now". Or "hey, I didn't get bent on that last
>> dive, think I'll crank the gradient all the way to the other side and see
> if
>> I get bent then".
>> 
>> No, that's not what I do. You are being a bit churlish here, aren't you?
> You
>> start with the default of the tables program you are using and see how you
>> feel. Feeling a bit tired after the dive? Not quite right? Then modify the
>> gradient, start the stops a little deeper, stay on the 02 a little longer.
>> 
>> You do the dive and feel fine? Great. Crank back on the gradient a little
>> and see what the effect is on your deco time and do the dive. Then see how
>> you feel. For most people you will be doing this continuously during your
>> diving career.
>> 
>> I simply cannot believe I am discussing truly basic stuff like this with
> Tom
>> Mount, I really cannot.
>> 
>> I guess from your school, Tom, you go get your Alladin Pro or your Navy
>> tables, jump in the water, slavishly adhere to it's ridiculous deco
>> schedule, get out of the water, feel like shit and then declare it a
>> successful dive. Then do it again. What do you call this technique?
>> 
>> Jim
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>> 
>>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:17:24 -0400
>>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
>>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Diver"
>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, "Dell
> Motes"
>>> <dell@di*.co*>
>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>> 
>>> To Jim Cobb
>>> Jim, You stated: " Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the
> pre-dive
>>> calculations.It up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your
> own
>>> body finding
>>> out what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications
> of
>>> your limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried
>>> lungs,etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't
>>> imagine not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. "
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So I guess then based on your statement , that there must be two types
> or
>>> definitions of DIR
>>> 
>>> 1. Doing It Right ( the one most people are familiar with)
>>> 
>>> 2. or as someone else has stated instead Doing It Ridiculsly
>>> 
>>> Sounds like you follow the second one
>>> 
>>> So which DIR do you really support
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Now to answer your last email
>>> 
>>> First: Do you guys ever read. I did not mention anything about my dives
>>> 
>>> Second: I will tell you I do not go out and bend myself on purpose just
> to
>>> see what my threshold is on a given day, like you advocate
>>> 
>>> Third: You stated you deliberately bend yourself then back off. Now that
>>> cannot be considered a logical or intelligent action.
>>> 
>>> Fourth: I would imagine many if not most divers who do a lot of deco
> dives
>>> have had niggles
>>> 
>>> Fifth: I hope most of these people do not deliberately bend themselves
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
>>> To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "David Shimell"
>>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tech Diver"
>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> So what you're telling me, Tom, that in all of your 10,000 dives you've
>>>> never had any indications of sub-clinical DCS at all? Every single one
> of
>>>> your decompression dives you've done, especially those deep air
> specials,
>>>> have been perfect dives? What a load of crap.
>>>> 
>>>> Z, here's more survey material for you. A show of hands of people who
>>>> actually do staged deco dives who have never had niggle one, a perfect
>>> dive
>>>> every time.
>>>> 
>>>> George you weren't kidding, were you?
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>> 
>>>>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:49:33 -0400
>>>>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
>>>>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech
> Diver"
>>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>> 
>>>>> So you deliberately go to the point of getting mild DCS and then back
>>> off .
>>>>> That is really intelligent Cobb
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
>>>>> To: "David Shimell" <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard"
>>>>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "Tech Diver"
>>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:22 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-dive
> calculations.
>>> It
>>>>>> up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your own body
> finding
>>> out
>>>>>> what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications
> of
>>>>> your
>>>>>> limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried
>>> lungs,
>>>>>> etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't
>>> imagine
>>>>>> not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. I dare say that if
>>> you
>>>>> do
>>>>>> it enough you know what your deco is intuitively in certain standard
>>>>>> profiles. Why anybody would want to cripple themselves with a wrist
>>> deco
>>>>>> computer is beyond me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: David Shimell <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:50:49 +0100
>>>>>>> To: "'Jim Cobb'" <cobber@ci*.co*>, Ray Blanchard
>>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>,
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>> Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, Tech Diver
>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>,
>>>>>>> "FLTechDiver@mikey.net"<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Trimix Computers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is as simple as the desire to have things easy, with little or no
>>>>>>> intellectual effort expended.  Nothing actually wrong with that if
> the
>>>>> product
>>>>>>> delivers to goods and the individual is prepared to pay the price.
>>> The
>>>>>>> problem occurs when the product does not deliver the goods - keeps
> the
>>>>>>> individual in-water longer than necessary or fails.  Suddenly, what
>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> routine dive to BT users may become a stressful CF, or in the most
>>>>> extreme of
>>>>>>> circumstances kill the individual.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> David Shimell
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Jim Cobb [SMTP:cobber@ci*.co*]
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:28 AM
>>>>>>> To: Ray Blanchard; Tom Mount; Tech Diver
>>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew; FLTechDiver@mikey.net
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> << File: ATT00048.htm >> All I can say is Ray, Why? All the stuff
> you
>>>>> relate
>>>>>>> here with the added
>>>>>>> bonus of the "most complicated interface in dive computerdom".
> Excuse
>>> me
>>>>> but
>>>>>>> I do believe that there are more important things to be keeping
> track
>>> of
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> a trimix dive than trying to figure out the most complicated
> interface
>>>>> ever
>>>>>>> strapped on a wrist.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What advantage does this $1900 monstrosity offer over a bottom
> timer,
>>>>> tables
>>>>>>> and a solid understanding of deco that only comes from experience?
>>> This
>>>>> is
>>>>>>> pure geek stuff, hoypaloy which adds nothing to your dive but more
>>>>>>> complexity, task loading and failure points.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Ray Blanchard <rkbl@uf*.ed*>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:36:09 -0400
>>>>>>> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Alan, Tom & the rest of the list,
>>>>>>> Thanks for the informative posts from folks regarding trimix
> computers
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> particular the Abyss Explorer and the Phoenix VR3 as well as the
>>> limited
>>>>>>> application of the NiTek3.  While not a trimix computer diver, I've
>>> been
>>>>>>> following this area closely for several years and dreaming of owning
>>>>> one.
>>>>>>> This past DEMA show, however, was especially interesting in regards
> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> VR3 which is the only trimix computer that I've seen in private
>>>>> individuals'
>>>>>>> hands (see Z's post regarding the Explorer).  Prior to the show my
>>>>>>> information was limited to that from OMS, the U.S. distributor of
> the
>>>>> VR3,
>>>>>>> and a friend who dove one and found the user interface rather
> complex.
>>>>>>> While visiting the OMS booth at DEMA, I spoke at length to Kevin
> Gurr
>>>>> and
>>>>>>> another member of the VR3 development team and discovered that OMS's
>>>>>>> literature on this computer fails to do justice to the VR3's
> features
>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> big way.  Since Tom with his hands-on experience didn't expound on
>>> them,
>>>>>>> here are a few of the highlights that are not on the OMS brochures:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Phoenix has a web presence ( www.vr3.co.uk ) including an
> electronic
>>>>> copy
>>>>>>> of the VR3 user manual
>>>>>>> -PC interface comes with the dive unit
>>>>>>> -user changeable standard batteries
>>>>>>> -never locks out upon deco violations
>>>>>>> -dive simulation mode allows contingency tables to be generated from
>>> the
>>>>>>> dive unit on its own
>>>>>>> -capable of complete gas control/programming even while on the dive
>>>>>>> -back lighting
>>>>>>> -adjustable conservancy/safety factor
>>>>>>> -reed switches (mentioned) mean no case penetration for buttons.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Overall this unit appears to have tremendous flexibility but that
> also
>>>>>>> makes for the most complicated user interface that I've seen on a
> dive
>>>>>>> computer.  Still, while I'm not a technophile, I think that I could
>>>>> learn to
>>>>>>> use this computer and I definitely would like to get my hands on
> one.
>>>>> The 2
>>>>>>> biggest down sides to this unit are that OMS is marketing the OC
>>> trimix
>>>>>>> model with an MSRP of $1900 and second, as Tom mentioned, it's
>>>>> conservative
>>>>>>> because it's based on the ProPlanner algorithm. I know that some of
> my
>>>>>>> trimix diving friends down here in FL find ProPlanner to be a little
>>> too
>>>>>>> conservative for their tastes even when it's set for zero
> conservation
>>>>> (for
>>>>>>> some reason they want to get out of the water faster ;-) however,
>>> Tom's
>>>>>>> recommendation for a special order may resolve this issue.  Of
> course
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> biggest point I've encountered for this trimix computer is that it's
>>> in
>>>>>>> production and available now.
>>>>>>> Safe diving,
>>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>> To contact the list administrator, email
>>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ============================================================
>>>> To contact the list administrator, email
>>>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
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>>>> and in the *BODY* of the message type:
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ============================================================
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> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to:
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