Tom, look if you are asking if I sit on the hang line and say "hey, wonder I
I'd get bent if I surface now". Or "hey, I didn't get bent on that last
dive, think I'll crank the gradient all the way to the other side and see if
I get bent then".

No, that's not what I do. You are being a bit churlish here, aren't you? You
start with the default of the tables program you are using and see how you
feel. Feeling a bit tired after the dive? Not quite right? Then modify the
gradient, start the stops a little deeper, stay on the 02 a little longer.

You do the dive and feel fine? Great. Crank back on the gradient a little
and see what the effect is on your deco time and do the dive. Then see how
you feel. For most people you will be doing this continuously during your
diving career.

I simply cannot believe I am discussing truly basic stuff like this with Tom
Mount, I really cannot.

I guess from your school, Tom, you go get your Alladin Pro or your Navy
tables, jump in the water, slavishly adhere to it's ridiculous deco
schedule, get out of the water, feel like shit and then declare it a
successful dive. Then do it again. What do you call this technique?

   Jim
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:17:24 -0400
> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Diver"
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>, "Dell
Motes"
> <dell@di*.co*>
> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
> 
> To Jim Cobb
> Jim, You stated: " Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-dive
> calculations.It up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your own
> body finding
> out what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications of
> your limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried
> lungs,etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't
> imagine not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. "
> 
> 
> So I guess then based on your statement , that there must be two types or
> definitions of DIR
> 
> 1. Doing It Right ( the one most people are familiar with)
> 
> 2. or as someone else has stated instead Doing It Ridiculsly
> 
> Sounds like you follow the second one
> 
> So which DIR do you really support
> 
> 
> Now to answer your last email
> 
> First: Do you guys ever read. I did not mention anything about my dives
> 
> Second: I will tell you I do not go out and bend myself on purpose just to
> see what my threshold is on a given day, like you advocate
> 
> Third: You stated you deliberately bend yourself then back off. Now that
> cannot be considered a logical or intelligent action.
> 
> Fourth: I would imagine many if not most divers who do a lot of deco dives
> have had niggles
> 
> Fifth: I hope most of these people do not deliberately bend themselves
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
> To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "David Shimell"
> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tech Diver"
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
> 
> 
>> So what you're telling me, Tom, that in all of your 10,000 dives you've
>> never had any indications of sub-clinical DCS at all? Every single one of
>> your decompression dives you've done, especially those deep air specials,
>> have been perfect dives? What a load of crap.
>> 
>> Z, here's more survey material for you. A show of hands of people who
>> actually do staged deco dives who have never had niggle one, a perfect
> dive
>> every time.
>> 
>> George you weren't kidding, were you?
>> 
>> Jim
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>> 
>>> From: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>> Reply-To: "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:49:33 -0400
>>> To: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>, "David Shimell"
>>> <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>, "Ray Blanchard" <rkbl@uf*.ed*>, "Tech Diver"
>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>, <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>> 
>>> So you deliberately go to the point of getting mild DCS and then back
> off .
>>> That is really intelligent Cobb
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ci*.co*>
>>> To: "David Shimell" <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>; "Ray Blanchard"
>>> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>; "Tom Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>; "Tech Diver"
>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>> Cc: "Alan Crew" <alancrew@ya*.co*>; <FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Shoot, half the fun of deco diving is doing the pre-dive calculations.
> It
>>>> up's the ante in that you are experimenting with your own body finding
> out
>>>> what the best profile is for you. When you start getting indications of
>>> your
>>>> limitations, i.e. joint pain, slobitus, that tired feeling, fried
> lungs,
>>>> etc. you adjust the calculations until you are dialed in. I can't
> imagine
>>>> not having the ability to fine-tune your profile. I dare say that if
> you
>>> do
>>>> it enough you know what your deco is intuitively in certain standard
>>>> profiles. Why anybody would want to cripple themselves with a wrist
> deco
>>>> computer is beyond me.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>> 
>>>>> From: David Shimell <David.Shimell@ta*.co*>
>>>>> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:50:49 +0100
>>>>> To: "'Jim Cobb'" <cobber@ci*.co*>, Ray Blanchard
> <rkbl@uf*.ed*>,
>>> Tom
>>>>> Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>, Tech Diver
> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>,
>>>>> "FLTechDiver@mikey.net"<FLTechDiver@mikey.net>
>>>>> Subject: RE: Trimix Computers
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is as simple as the desire to have things easy, with little or no
>>>>> intellectual effort expended.  Nothing actually wrong with that if the
>>> product
>>>>> delivers to goods and the individual is prepared to pay the price.
> The
>>>>> problem occurs when the product does not deliver the goods - keeps the
>>>>> individual in-water longer than necessary or fails.  Suddenly, what
>>> would be
>>>>> routine dive to BT users may become a stressful CF, or in the most
>>> extreme of
>>>>> circumstances kill the individual.
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Shimell
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jim Cobb [SMTP:cobber@ci*.co*]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:28 AM
>>>>> To: Ray Blanchard; Tom Mount; Tech Diver
>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew; FLTechDiver@mikey.net
>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>> 
>>>>> << File: ATT00048.htm >> All I can say is Ray, Why? All the stuff
you
>>> relate
>>>>> here with the added
>>>>> bonus of the "most complicated interface in dive computerdom". Excuse
> me
>>> but
>>>>> I do believe that there are more important things to be keeping track
> of
>>> on
>>>>> a trimix dive than trying to figure out the most complicated interface
>>> ever
>>>>> strapped on a wrist.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What advantage does this $1900 monstrosity offer over a bottom timer,
>>> tables
>>>>> and a solid understanding of deco that only comes from experience?
> This
>>> is
>>>>> pure geek stuff, hoypaloy which adds nothing to your dive but more
>>>>> complexity, task loading and failure points.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Ray Blanchard <rkbl@uf*.ed*>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:36:09 -0400
>>>>> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@in*.at*.ne*>
>>>>> Cc: Alan Crew <alancrew@ya*.co*>, FLTechDiver@mikey.net
>>>>> Subject: Re: Trimix Computers
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Alan, Tom & the rest of the list,
>>>>> Thanks for the informative posts from folks regarding trimix computers
>>> in
>>>>> particular the Abyss Explorer and the Phoenix VR3 as well as the
> limited
>>>>> application of the NiTek3.  While not a trimix computer diver, I've
> been
>>>>> following this area closely for several years and dreaming of owning
>>> one.
>>>>> This past DEMA show, however, was especially interesting in regards to
>>> the
>>>>> VR3 which is the only trimix computer that I've seen in private
>>> individuals'
>>>>> hands (see Z's post regarding the Explorer).  Prior to the show my
>>>>> information was limited to that from OMS, the U.S. distributor of the
>>> VR3,
>>>>> and a friend who dove one and found the user interface rather complex.
>>>>> While visiting the OMS booth at DEMA, I spoke at length to Kevin Gurr
>>> and
>>>>> another member of the VR3 development team and discovered that OMS's
>>>>> literature on this computer fails to do justice to the VR3's features
> in
>>> a
>>>>> big way.  Since Tom with his hands-on experience didn't expound on
> them,
>>>>> here are a few of the highlights that are not on the OMS brochures:
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Phoenix has a web presence ( www.vr3.co.uk ) including an electronic
>>> copy
>>>>> of the VR3 user manual
>>>>> -PC interface comes with the dive unit
>>>>> -user changeable standard batteries
>>>>> -never locks out upon deco violations
>>>>> -dive simulation mode allows contingency tables to be generated from
> the
>>>>> dive unit on its own
>>>>> -capable of complete gas control/programming even while on the dive
>>>>> -back lighting
>>>>> -adjustable conservancy/safety factor
>>>>> -reed switches (mentioned) mean no case penetration for buttons.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Overall this unit appears to have tremendous flexibility but that also
>>>>> makes for the most complicated user interface that I've seen on a dive
>>>>> computer.  Still, while I'm not a technophile, I think that I could
>>> learn to
>>>>> use this computer and I definitely would like to get my hands on one.
>>> The 2
>>>>> biggest down sides to this unit are that OMS is marketing the OC
> trimix
>>>>> model with an MSRP of $1900 and second, as Tom mentioned, it's
>>> conservative
>>>>> because it's based on the ProPlanner algorithm. I know that some of my
>>>>> trimix diving friends down here in FL find ProPlanner to be a little
> too
>>>>> conservative for their tastes even when it's set for zero conservation
>>> (for
>>>>> some reason they want to get out of the water faster ;-) however,
> Tom's
>>>>> recommendation for a special order may resolve this issue.  Of course
>>> the
>>>>> biggest point I've encountered for this trimix computer is that it's
> in
>>>>> production and available now.
>>>>> Safe diving,
>>>>> Ray
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> ============================================================
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>> 
>> 
>> ============================================================
>> To contact the list administrator, email
>> Mike Rodriguez at mikey@mi*.ne*
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> 
> 
> 


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