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--------------45A88E1FE15301E9DBC377E8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At this gentlemens experience level isn't this whole thing a bit frightening? JG ***************** Jsuw@ao*.co* wrote: > Thom: > > You are getting good advice, to build your experience slowly so that > you will > be prepared to do dives like this safely. The amount you don't know > now is > glaring to the rest of us. You need to learn and gain experience. > > You are planning 51 minutes run time in 37-42 degree water. You are > not > going to be happy hanging on the line for 28 minutes of deco. > > Have you used a stage bottle before? Probably not if you are even > thinking > of using a steel 120. The drag of the steel stage will make you very > uncomfortable during the dive, and will make you do a lot more work. > This > will add to CO2 build-up and narcosis -- as will the cold, and the > mental > aspects of diving in low visibility water. > > I have known many divers with about your experience level who felt > dizzy and > disoriented descending when all they could see is swirling brown > water, the > line and their buddy. > > You are thinking of diving mixes that are narcotic at the depth you > plan, and > are also adding to narcosis with other factors. > > I can see you are stubbornly going to do your dive anyway, no matter > how much > advice you get to take it more slowly. > > Why not plan a dive on a shallower wreck that gives you 5 minutes of > hang > time maximum and learn how to do deco when it is barely longer than a > safety > stop? Why not do a run through of your dive plan on a much shallower > site > (50' max) and simulate your plan? I think you will find the flaws, > and you > will be at a depth where you can ascend immediately if you want or > need to. > You can't do that with a deco ceiling above you. > > I understand your desire to spend more time on some of the beautiful > Great > Lakes wrecks, but don't get too far ahead of yourself. Get experience > doing > recreational dives. Get training for the dives you plan to do. With > less > than 100 dives, and all of 8 below 100', you are not prepared. > > Jan > > > > In a message dated 5/12/01 12:17:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > thom.hadfield@ho*.co* writes: > > > >> >> >> Thanks for the advice. I do have a plan sorry I wasn't more clear in >> the >> post. I will probably dive on 25% using this secedule >> >> Waypoint at 140ft for 20:00 (22) on Air, PPO2 1.076, END >> 140 >> Deep Stop at 120ft for 0:33 (23) on Air, PPO2 0.952, END >> 120 >> Deep Stop at 110ft for 0:33 (24) on Air, PPO2 0.890, END >> 110 >> Deep Stop at 100ft for 0:33 (24) on Air, PPO2 0.829, END >> 100 >> Deep Stop at 90ft for 0:33 (25) on Air, PPO2 0.767, END 90 >> >> Deep Stop at 80ft for 0:33 (26) on Air, PPO2 0.705, END 80 >> >> Deep Stop at 70ft for 0:33 (26) on Air, PPO2 0.643, END 70 >> >> Deep Stop at 60ft for 0:33 (27) on Air, PPO2 0.581, END 60 >> >> Deep Stop at 50ft for 0:33 (27) on Air, PPO2 0.519, END 50 >> >> Deep Stop at 40ft for 0:33 (28) on Air, PPO2 0.457, END 40 >> >> Norm Stop at 20ft for 6:00 (34) on Air, PPO2 0.334, END 20 >> >> Norm Stop at 10ft for 17:00 (51) on Air, PPO2 0.272, END 10 >> >> TOTAL DECO TIME: 28 minutes. >> DIVE RUN TIME: 51 minutes. >> CNS Total: 9.0% >> OTU's: 26 >> >> I plan on diving either a 120 or double 80's. I am leaning toward a >> 120 >> just for familarity I normally dive with a 120. My dive buddy has a >> lot >> more expierence than I do but also has no deco expierence. I am >> using >> laminated navy tables to take with me and I have a computer that >> will >> calculate deco to 350' I am using zplan to plan out the dive and it >> is the >> plan I intend to dive if everything goes as planned. However I will >> have >> tables and a computer for back up. I will carry an ascent reel and >> an extra >> 80 or 120 (haven't decided which) stage bottle down with me and >> attach it >> to the wreck near the ascent line. My buddy is planning the same. I >> may >> also carry it with me these are the things I plan on working out in >> a >> quarry. Also we are considering hanging another tank off the bow of >> the >> boat as a third extra air tank.I want to do the dive not because of >> depth >> but because I want more than 10 mins on this wreck. >> I dive safe the last time I dove the wreck I planned for 140'. The >> wreck >> is in something like 135 feet but I added in a little for error and >> safety >> incase something happened myself or my buddy hit bottom. Anyways my >> max >> depth was 128' and my computer told me I had another 9 mins left at >> that >> depth but I procedded back to the ascent line according to my dive >> plan. >> For me or my buddy this isn't a personal accomplishment it is >> wanting extra >> time to view the splendor of this wreck. We didn't decide to do a >> deco dive >> to prove anything we decided we wanted to have more time at that >> depth and >> the only way was a deco dive and we felt ok doing it on air or 25%. >> We are >> planning no penetration except a descent and ascent into the main >> wide open >> cargo hold. >> I believe trimix is good and I had not even considered trimx because >> I felt >> this dive plan was acceptable to do on air or 25%. But when I posted >> a >> question for tips and suggestions I had a major response that this >> was >> unsafe on air and I must use trimix or a variation there of. I feel >> comfortable on this wreck and the depth on air. However I didn't >> know what >> to expect extending my time into decopression ranges. >> Sorry for the lengthy discussion but I thought it might better give >> you an >> idea of my dive plan. >> >> Thanks Thom >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Joe >> > To: Thom Hadfield >> > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:19 AM >> > Subject: Re: Re. Deco diving >> > >> > >> > Hi Thom: >> > >> > Do yourself a big favor and just dive. Forget about trimix for a >> > while >> > and forget about depth. The way to become a proficient and safe >> > diver is >> > to evolve into it. At less than 100 dives thinking about trimix is >> > >> > ludicrous. I know the agencies may list 100 dives as a >> > prerequisite for >> > trimix, but believe it that you are not ready even at 200 dives. >> > >> > Let me explain. You could learn to execute a trimix dive after 50 >> > dives. >> > As a college student you most probably could learn the theories and >> > the >> > math in 20 minutes. Its probably all stuff you already know. What >> > you >> > can't learn is the stuff that only time and experience will teach >> > you. >> > When you make your screw ups (and you will, just like the rest of >> > us) you >> > want them to occur and a depth and in a circumstance you can >> > survive. A >> > mishandled incident at 75' is quite survivable. That same event at >> > 300' >> > or with a serious decompression ceiling will probably kill you. If >> > you >> > review most of the accidents, one of the common threads in them is >> > people >> > diving beyond their experience level. They take a course, get >> > certified >> > and then kill themselves doing something stupid like an >> > uncontrolled >> > ascent. >> > >> > Helium is no voodoo mystery gas. Diving it is essentially the same >> > as air >> > diving. What you need are good in water skills, excellent buoyancy >> > >> > control and the ability to handle task loading. What makes it >> > challenging >> > to the novice is not the gas. It is the ability to monitor your >> > deco >> > schedule, switch to the correct gas at the correct depth while >> > making sure >> > your buddy is on the correct gas, deploy a lift bag and possibly >> > manage an >> > unexpected emergency like you broke the knob off your deco bottle >> > in the >> > closed position or tangled the reel on the lift bag - all at the >> > same time >> > and without endangering yourself and others. If you jump right >> > into >> > advanced diving, you will surely "pass" the courses but in spite of >> > that >> > you won't have the experience level to fall back on when the sh** >> > hits the >> > fan. That experience is what will keep you alive and you won't >> > have it. >> > >> > The skills you need to successfully execute any advanced dive begin >> > with >> > basic diving skills. Refine those skills and build up that >> > experience and >> > evolve into the advanced diving. For now, content yourself with >> > recreational level diving and work on the skills specific to >> > advanced >> > diving (reels, lift bags multiple bottles etc. etc.) and when you >> > are >> > ready to take the courses you will really reap the full benefit of >> > your >> > instructors knowledge because he won't have to waste time teaching >> > you >> > things you should already know. >> > >> > >>I guess the risks of narcosis which at the depths and times I >> > have done >> > I didn't experience >> > >>any is not that great at the dive I am planning. I have heard it >> > is a >> > fairly safe plan to that it is >>not a safe plan. Well that's a >> > little of >> > my background and thankyou for your reply's >> > >> > Now to answer your questions. >> > >> > You won't "feel" the narcosis until it gets to the point of the >> > ridiculous. Much like after "one beer" you are impaired but don't >> > know >> > it. >> > >> > As far as a plan goes, you have none. (Other than to go to 140' >> > which is >> > not a plan.) >> > >> > Are you diving a single tank or doubles? Have you made provisions >> > for air >> > emergencies? What are your air rules? What is your run time? Is >> > this a >> > planned decompression dive? If not, do you know what to do if you >> > overstay and wind up in decompression? If it is do you have >> > contingency >> > tables? Will you have enough gas to decompress? Are you using a >> > computer >> > and if so, do you have a table to back it up? What about your >> > buddy? Is >> > he at the same level as you? Will he be an asset or a liability in >> > the >> > event of a mishap? >> > >> > If this is one of those personal depth things my advice is to can >> > it. If >> > it is a legitimate dive with a purpose other than depth, think >> > about the >> > questions I have asked you and formulate a dive plan. >> > >> > That said, should you have any questions, feel free to ask. If I >> > can >> > answer them I will. Also, take note we have had two fatalities >> > this week. >> > One a highly experienced "tech" instructor and the other a college >> > >> > student open water diver who was curious about a cave. Walk before >> > you >> > run. >> > >> > Best of luck and dive safe. >> > >> > Joe Citelli >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Thom Hadfield >> >> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:23 PM >> >> Subject: Re. Deco diving >> >> >> >> >> >> I am planning on doing the ebber ward which I have been on 3 >> >> times. The >> >> max depth I reached on the ward was 128'. I have been over 100' >> >> probably >> >> 8 times wothout getting out my log. I have dove several wrecks in >> >> the 40 >> >> to 100' foot range. I dive a lot in the st. Clair river which has >> >> low vis >> >> and current. I do most of my practice dives there. I am currently >> >> signed >> >> up for Nitrox. I also do not have 100 dives in yet which seems to >> >> be the >> >> basic first step for Trimix. I will have those in by the end of >> >> this >> >> year. All of my expierence is in cold greatlakes water. I do not >> >> plan any >> >> wreck penetration for this dive except for a verticle decent and >> >> ascent >> >> into the wide open cargo hole which I have done on a previous >> >> dive. The >> >> max depth for the ward unless you start to dig a hole underneath >> >> the >> >> wreck is just dhy of 140' so I am planning my dive for 140 but I >> >> donot >> >> plan on spending much time at that depth. >> >> I am interested in trimix and I do believe it to be safer than >> >> air or >> >> nitrox at this depth but I have not found a store in my area who >> >> teaches >> >> it. Also it appears online that the training runs about $800 >> >> which to me >> >> as a college student is a bit high. However I know the response >> >> of what >> >> price can you put on a life will come up. I guess the risks of >> >> narcosis >> >> which at the depths and times I have done I didn't expierence any >> >> is not >> >> that great at the dive I am planning. I have heard it is a fairly >> >> safe >> >> plan to that it is not a safe plan. Well thats a little of my >> >> background >> >> and thankyou for your reply's >> > >> >> > > > > > Visit my web page with underwater and other photos at > http://members.aol.com/jsuw3/index.html --------------45A88E1FE15301E9DBC377E8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> At this gentlemens experience level isn't this whole thing a bit frightening? <p>JG <p>***************** <p>Jsuw@ao*.co* wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Thom:</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>You are getting good advice, to build your experience slowly so that you will</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>be prepared to do dives like this safely. The amount you don't know now is</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>glaring to the rest of us. You need to learn and gain experience.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>You are planning 51 minutes run time in 37-42 degree water. You are not</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>going to be happy hanging on the line for 28 minutes of deco.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Have you used a stage bottle before? Probably not if you are even thinking</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>of using a steel 120. The drag of the steel stage will make you very</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>uncomfortable during the dive, and will make you do a lot more work. This</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>will add to CO2 build-up and narcosis -- as will the cold, and the mental</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>aspects of diving in low visibility water.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>I have known many divers with about your experience level who felt dizzy and</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>disoriented descending when all they could see is swirling brown water, the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>line and their buddy.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>You are thinking of diving mixes that are narcotic at the depth you plan, and</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>are also adding to narcosis with other factors.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>I can see you are stubbornly going to do your dive anyway, no matter how much</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>advice you get to take it more slowly.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Why not plan a dive on a shallower wreck that gives you 5 minutes of hang</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>time maximum and learn how to do deco when it is barely longer than a safety</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>stop? Why not do a run through of your dive plan on a much shallower site</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>(50' max) and simulate your plan? I think you will find the flaws, and you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>will be at a depth where you can ascend immediately if you want or need to.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>You can't do that with a deco ceiling above you.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>I understand your desire to spend more time on some of the beautiful Great</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Lakes wrecks, but don't get too far ahead of yourself. Get experience doing</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>recreational dives. Get training for the dives you plan to do. With less</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>than 100 dives, and all of 8 below 100', you are not prepared.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Jan</font></font></font> <br> <br> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>In a message dated 5/12/01 12:17:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,</font></font></font> <br><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>thom.hadfield@ho*.co* writes:</font></font></font> <br> <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Thanks for the advice. I do have a plan sorry I wasn't more clear in the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>post. I will probably dive on 25% using this secedule</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Waypoint at 140ft for 20:00 (22) on Air, PPO2 1.076, END 140</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 120ft for 0:33 (23) on Air, PPO2 0.952, END 120</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 110ft for 0:33 (24) on Air, PPO2 0.890, END 110</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 100ft for 0:33 (24) on Air, PPO2 0.829, END 100</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 90ft for 0:33 (25) on Air, PPO2 0.767, END 90</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 80ft for 0:33 (26) on Air, PPO2 0.705, END 80</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 70ft for 0:33 (26) on Air, PPO2 0.643, END 70</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 60ft for 0:33 (27) on Air, PPO2 0.581, END 60</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 50ft for 0:33 (27) on Air, PPO2 0.519, END 50</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Deep Stop at 40ft for 0:33 (28) on Air, PPO2 0.457, END 40</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Norm Stop at 20ft for 6:00 (34) on Air, PPO2 0.334, END 20</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Norm Stop at 10ft for 17:00 (51) on Air, PPO2 0.272, END 10</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>TOTAL DECO TIME: 28 minutes.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>DIVE RUN TIME: 51 minutes.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>CNS Total: 9.0%</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>OTU's: 26</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I plan on diving either a 120 or double 80's. I am leaning toward a 120</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>just for familarity I normally dive with a 120. My dive buddy has a lot</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>more expierence than I do but also has no deco expierence. I am using</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>laminated navy tables to take with me and I have a computer that will</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>calculate deco to 350' I am using zplan to plan out the dive and it is the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>plan I intend to dive if everything goes as planned. However I will have</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>tables and a computer for back up. I will carry an ascent reel and an extra</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>80 or 120 (haven't decided which) stage bottle down with me and attach it</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>to the wreck near the ascent line. My buddy is planning the same. I may</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>also carry it with me these are the things I plan on working out in a</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>quarry. Also we are considering hanging another tank off the bow of the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>boat as a third extra air tank.I want to do the dive not because of depth</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>but because I want more than 10 mins on this wreck.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I dive safe the last time I dove the wreck I planned for 140'. The wreck</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>is in something like 135 feet but I added in a little for error and safety</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>incase something happened myself or my buddy hit bottom. Anyways my max</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>depth was 128' and my computer told me I had another 9 mins left at that</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>depth but I procedded back to the ascent line according to my dive plan.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>For me or my buddy this isn't a personal accomplishment it is wanting extra</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>time to view the splendor of this wreck. We didn't decide to do a deco dive</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>to prove anything we decided we wanted to have more time at that depth and</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>the only way was a deco dive and we felt ok doing it on air or 25%. We are</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>planning no penetration except a descent and ascent into the main wide open</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>cargo hold.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>I believe trimix is good and I had not even considered trimx because I felt</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>this dive plan was acceptable to do on air or 25%. But when I posted a</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>question for tips and suggestions I had a major response that this was</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>unsafe on air and I must use trimix or a variation there of. I feel</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>comfortable on this wreck and the depth on air. However I didn't know what</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>to expect extending my time into decopression ranges.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Sorry for the lengthy discussion but I thought it might better give you an</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>idea of my dive plan.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Thanks Thom</font></font></font> <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>----- Original Message -----</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:joe@po*.co*">Joe</a></font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:thom.hadfield@ho*.co*">Thom Hadfield</a></font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 06, 2001 8:19 AM</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</b> Re: Re. Deco diving</font></font></font> <br> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Hi Thom:</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Do yourself a big favor and just dive. Forget about trimix for a while</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>and forget about depth. The way to become a proficient and safe diver is</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>to evolve into it. At less than 100 dives thinking about trimix is</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>ludicrous. I know the agencies may list 100 dives as a prerequisite for</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>trimix, but believe it that you are not ready even at 200 dives.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Let me explain. You could learn to execute a trimix dive after 50 dives.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>As a college student you most probably could learn the theories and the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>math in 20 minutes. Its probably all stuff you already know. What you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>can't learn is the stuff that only time and experience will teach you.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>When you make your screw ups (and you will, just like the rest of us) you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>want them to occur and a depth and in a circumstance you can survive. A</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>mishandled incident at 75' is quite survivable. That same event at 300'</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>or with a serious decompression ceiling will probably kill you. If you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>review most of the accidents, one of the common threads in them is people</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>diving beyond their experience level. They take a course, get certified</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>and then kill themselves doing something stupid like an uncontrolled</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>ascent.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Helium is no voodoo mystery gas. Diving it is essentially the same as air</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>diving. What you need are good in water skills, excellent buoyancy</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>control and the ability to handle task loading. What makes it challenging</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>to the novice is not the gas. It is the ability to monitor your deco</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>schedule, switch to the correct gas at the correct depth while making sure</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>your buddy is on the correct gas, deploy a lift bag and possibly manage an</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>unexpected emergency like you broke the knob off your deco bottle in the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>closed position or tangled the reel on the lift bag - all at the same time</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>and without endangering yourself and others. If you jump right into</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>advanced diving, you will surely "pass" the courses but in spite of that</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>you won't have the experience level to fall back on when the sh** hits the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>fan. That experience is what will keep you alive and you won't have it.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>The skills you need to successfully execute any advanced dive begin with</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>basic diving skills. Refine those skills and build up that experience and</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>evolve into the advanced diving. For now, content yourself with</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>recreational level diving and work on the skills specific to advanced</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>diving (reels, lift bags multiple bottles etc. etc.) and when you are</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>ready to take the courses you will really reap the full benefit of your</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>instructors knowledge because he won't have to waste time teaching you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>things you should already know.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>>>I guess the risks of narcosis which at the depths and times I have done</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>I didn't experience</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>>>any is not that great at the dive I am planning. I have heard it is a</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>fairly safe plan to that it is >>not a safe plan. Well that's a little of</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>my background and thankyou for your reply's</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Now to answer your questions.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>You won't "feel" the narcosis until it gets to the point of the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>ridiculous. Much like after "one beer" you are impaired but don't know</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>it.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>As far as a plan goes, you have none. (Other than to go to 140' which is</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>not a plan.)</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Are you diving a single tank or doubles? Have you made provisions for air</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>emergencies? What are your air rules? What is your run time? Is this a</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>planned decompression dive? If not, do you know what to do if you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>overstay and wind up in decompression? If it is do you have contingency</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>tables? Will you have enough gas to decompress? Are you using a computer</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>and if so, do you have a table to back it up? What about your buddy? Is</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>he at the same level as you? Will he be an asset or a liability in the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>event of a mishap?</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>If this is one of those personal depth things my advice is to can it. If</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>it is a legitimate dive with a purpose other than depth, think about the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>questions I have asked you and formulate a dive plan.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>That said, should you have any questions, feel free to ask. If I can</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>answer them I will. Also, take note we have had two fatalities this week.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1> One a highly experienced "tech" instructor and the other a college</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>student open water diver who was curious about a cave. Walk before you</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>run.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Best of luck and dive safe.</font></font></font> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Joe Citelli</font></font></font> <br> <br> <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>----- Original Message -----</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:thom.hadfield@ho*.co*">Thom Hadfield</a></font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</a></font>< /font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:23 PM</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><b>Subject:</b> Re. Deco diving</font></font></font> <br> <p><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>I am planning on doing the ebber ward which I have been on 3 times. The</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>max depth I reached on the ward was 128'. I have been over 100' probably</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>8 times wothout getting out my log. I have dove several wrecks in the 40</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>to 100' foot range. I dive a lot in the st. Clair river which has low vis</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>and current. I do most of my practice dives there. I am currently signed</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>up for Nitrox. I also do not have 100 dives in yet which seems to be the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>basic first step for Trimix. I will have those in by the end of this</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>year. All of my expierence is in cold greatlakes water. I do not plan any</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>wreck penetration for this dive except for a verticle decent and ascent</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>into the wide open cargo hole which I have done on a previous dive. The</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>max depth for the ward unless you start to dig a hole underneath the</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>wreck is just dhy of 140' so I am planning my dive for 140 but I donot</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>plan on spending much time at that depth.</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>I am interested in trimix and I do believe it to be safer than air or</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>nitrox at this depth but I have not found a store in my area who teaches</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>it. Also it appears online that the training runs about $800 which to me</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>as a college student is a bit high. However I know the response of what</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>price can you put on a life will come up. I guess the risks of narcosis</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>which at the depths and times I have done I didn't expierence any is not</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>that great at the dive I am planning. I have heard it is a fairly safe</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>plan to that it is not a safe plan. Well thats a little of my background</font></font></font> <br><font face="Arial"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>and thankyou for your reply's</font></font></font></blockquote> </blockquote> <br> </blockquote> <br> <p><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1>Visit my web page with underwater and other photos at</font></font></font></b> <br><b><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#800040"><font size=-1><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/jsuw3/index.html">http://members.aol.com/jsuw3/inde x.html</A></font></font></font></b></blockquote> </html> --------------45A88E1FE15301E9DBC377E8-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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