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Adrian,
Im not trying to pick a fight with you. I belive you need some advice on =
the way thou. Some informatinon below your coments...
>i dive with the ISO open just enough for the cylinders to equalise, =
in the event of a free flow , i don't waste time having to turn the ISO =
off from fully on , as with cold >hands or thick dry gloves ,this would =
make life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for myself?????),.
The fastes and most apropiate way of handeling a free flow is always =
to shut down the valve with the frozen or mailfunctioning regulator and =
switch to back up. In other words you do not need or should not close =
the ISO in the event of a free flow. To spend time on closing the ISO =
first and then the adecvate valve would only make up for more wasted =
gas. One could offcorse close both valves at the same time but it would =
be an overkill.
The only senario there you have to shut down the ISO would be a broken =
burst disk (american valves) or a abused manifold (o-rings). A fully =
opened ISO valve is closed in seconds if you have trained it and have =
the right equipment and configuration. Even with gloves or what ever.
>As for the 3/4 of European divers using this method, divers taking =
there first steps into tech training , do so with IANTD or TDI,
>, as shut downs are apart of syllabus, my instructor & people i have =
listened to use this method, and as far as i a aware As the said =
organisations are wide spread >around Europe , i can only conclude that =
they are also shown this method.
I understand that you do what you have been trained to do, no mistery =
there. What I do know is that this fall down to personal preferense =
again since none of your mentioned organications have standards that =
suggest that the ISO should be this or that.=20
take care,
Richard
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Richard Lundgren=20
To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; Chris =
Tibble=20
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Adrian,
Not likely, the only reason to do it like you suggest is =
inexperience or lack of understanding. Follow the tread and Im shure you =
understand why you are wrong and how you would benefit from doing it =
right.It would be a shame if 3/4 of our european guys would be that =
ignorant and I find it pretty hard to belive, dont make up statistic =
figures on your own to prove your point, it will not work.
regards,
Richard Lundgren
----- Original Message -----=20
From: adrian scothern=20
To: adrian scothern ; George Irvine ; techdiver-aquanaut.com ; =
Chris Tibble=20
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
Well, i've been diving with the ISO two half turns , since =
having a twin set!, and proberley 3/4 OF Europe dive's The BullShit =
Paranoia Way, I'm Sorry that i've No Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF =
THE UNDERWATER WORLD =20
-- Original Message -----=20
From: George Irvine=20
To: adrian scothern ; Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
And what bullshit paranoia do you attribute the "two half =
turns " to? This is the kind of mindless crap that gets people killed. =
I will say right here and now that you can come up with no reason to do =
something that stupid that makes any sense what so ever. Give it a try.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: adrian scothern=20
To: Chris Tibble ; techdiver-aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: Isolating Manifold Question
I have the ISO two half turn's on, and I think the key is to =
, Know your kit inside out, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over =
30 hours ,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and Do =
know my current config Insideout , the wife finds this highly amusing =
if/when she walks in . same goe's for inwater training dives .
ady
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Chris Tibble=20
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Isolating Manifold Question
Just a quickie. I'm just about to buy my first twinset =
with a manifold. I've dived twins before, independents because of fiscal =
reasons (I'm a poor student!) What I need to know is this. Some of the =
people I have talked to who dive manis only open their iso knob about =
1/2 a turn, whilst others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can =
see advantages and disadvantages to both:
All the way
Adv: No risk of turning wrong way
Disadv: May get stuck if turned on all way
Have to turn it 3 turns (or whatever)
Part way
Adv: V fast way of isolating
Disadv: Can turn it the wrong way=20
Not having it open all the way may limit =
equalisation across the manifold.
Now any or all of this may be unmitigated rubbish, but =
it's just what I was thinking about last night.
Any comments/suggestions as to how best to do it?
As this is my first post, go easy on me - I'm still =
learning!
Many thanks,
Chris
--
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to =
laugh at that man.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im not trying to pick a fight with you. =
I belive=20
you need some advice on the way thou. Some informatinon below your=20
coments...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>i dive with the ISO open just =
enough for the=20
cylinders to equalise, in the event of a free flow , i don't waste =
time having=20
to turn the ISO off from fully on , as with cold >hands or thick =
dry gloves=20
,this would make life difficult!( Why should i make it harder for=20
myself?????),.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The fastes and most apropiate way of =
handeling a=20
free flow is always to shut down the valve with the frozen or =
mailfunctioning=20
regulator and switch to back up. In other words you do not need or =
should not=20
close the ISO in the event of a free flow. To spend time on =
closing the=20
ISO first and then the adecvate valve would only make up for more =
wasted gas.=20
One could offcorse close both valves at the same time but it would be =
an=20
overkill.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only senario there you have =
to shut=20
down the ISO would be a broken burst disk (american valves) or=20
a abused manifold (o-rings). A fully opened ISO valve is closed =
in=20
seconds if you have trained it and have the right equipment and =
configuration.=20
Even with gloves or what ever.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>As for the 3/4 of European divers =
using this=20
method, divers taking there first steps into tech training , do so =
with IANTD=20
or TDI,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>, as shut downs are apart of =
syllabus, my=20
instructor & people i have listened to use this method, and =
as far=20
as i a aware As the said organisations are wide spread >around =
Europe=20
, i can only conclude that they are also shown this =
method.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I understand that you do what you =
have been=20
trained to do, no mistery there. What I do know is that this fall down =
to=20
personal preferense again since none of your mentioned organications =
have=20
standards that suggest that the ISO should be this or that. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>take care,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drikard.lundgren@sw*.se*=20
href=3D"mailto:rikard.lundgren@sw*.se*">Richard Lundgren</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne* href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*">George =
Irvine</A>=20
; <A title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> ; =
<A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 14, =
2001 9:49=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not likely, the only reason to do =
it like you=20
suggest is inexperience or lack of understanding. Follow the tread =
and Im=20
shure you understand why you are wrong and how you would benefit =
from doing=20
it right.It would be a shame if 3/4 of our european guys would be =
that=20
ignorant and I find it pretty hard to belive, dont make up statistic =
figures=20
on your own to prove your point, it will not work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Richard Lundgren</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> ; <A =
title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne* =
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*">George=20
Irvine</A> ; <A title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 13, =
2001 12:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, i've been
diving =
with the ISO=20
two half turns , since having a twin set!, and proberley =
3/4 OF=20
Europe dive's The BullShit Paranoia Way, I'm Sorry that =
i've No=20
Idea about Diving OH DEMI GOD OF THE UNDERWATER WORLD =20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne* =
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*">George=20
Irvine</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian scothern</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> ; =
<A=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April
13, =
2001=20
11:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>And what bullshit paranoia do you =
attribute the "two=20
half turns " to? This is the kind of mindless crap that =
gets=20
people killed. I will say right here and now that you can come =
up with=20
no reason to do something that stupid that makes any sense =
what so=20
ever. Give it a try.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*=20
href=3D"mailto:ady@no*.fs*.co*.uk*">adrian =
scothern</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris Tibble</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver-aquanaut.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday,
April =
12, 2001=20
7:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
Isolating Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the ISO two =
half turn's on,=20
and I think the key is to , <STRONG>Know your kit inside=20
out</STRONG>, I've sat in the dark , in full kit for over 30 =
hours=20
,every new bit of kit , i go through the same process, and =
Do know=20
my current config Insideout , the wife finds =
this=20
highly amusing if/when she walks in . same goe's for inwater =
training dives .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ady</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message =
----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-color: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dchris.tibble@bt*.co*=20
href=3D"mailto:chris.tibble@bt*.co*">Chris =
Tibble</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, =
April 12,=20
2001 6:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B>
Isolating =
Manifold=20
Question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a quickie. I'm just =
about to buy=20
my first twinset with a manifold. I've dived twins before, =
independents because of fiscal reasons (I'm a poor =
student!) What=20
I need to know is this. Some of the people I have talked =
to who=20
dive manis only open their iso knob about 1/2 a turn, =
whilst=20
others open it all the way. Thinking about it I can see =
advantages=20
and disadvantages to both:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All the
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20
No risk of turning wrong =
way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: =
May get=20
stuck if turned on all way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
=20
Have to turn it 3 =
turns (or=20
whatever)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Part way</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adv: =20
V fast way of isolating</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Disadv: =
Can turn it=20
the wrong way </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; Not=20
having it open all the way may limit equalisation across =
the=20
manifold.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now any or all of this =
may be=20
unmitigated rubbish, but it's just what I was thinking =
about last=20
night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any comments/suggestions =
as to how=20
best to do it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As this is my first post, =
go easy on=20
me - I'm still learning!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many
thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It takes a big man to =
cry, but it=20
takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.<BR></DIV>
=
<DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO
CKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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