Jim, I will not engage George in his meaningless post. As I said, I lowered 
myself to his level in those private emails. You are correct, it is not my 
style. Those who dive with me know what I stand for and try to achieve. I 
don't have to prove that to the guys who dive with me, that has already 
been done. Everyone else is an outsider until they dive with us on a 
regular bases and know what goes on.


   At 06:45 PM 3/14/01 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote:
>JT, yes you are telling the truth, but I don't think you needed to "george"
>George, it's not your style.
>
>    Jim
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>
> > From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
> > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:15:36 -0500
> > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, <vbtech@ci*.co*>, Kevin 
> Connell
> > <kevin@co*.ne*>, <dwiden@ho*.co*>
> > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
> >
> > At 04:51 PM 3/14/01 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote: I don't agree
> >> with JT's posts, I think he's better than that,
> >
> > I am better than that, everything I said was in private and was not on the
> > lists, you as were a few others were cc on it. I lowered myself to his
> > standards, but never once did I say anything about his girlfriend, it was
> > all about him. I exposed Kevin in those same emails for what he was and he
> > ask to be removed. Jim, you were witness to those emails, am I telling the
> > truth.
> >
> >> but George in your battles
> >> you have gone personal with quite a few people now and then, so you really
> >> shouldn't be belly-aching about JT's posts. Sticks and stones and all 
> that.
> >>
> >> I am pissed at you comparing us to Stone... Stone was a huge bullshit
> >> artist, he did a giant scam bilking millions out of gullible idiots,
> >> screwing over you and lying to all divers. This is not an appropriate
> >> comparison to us guys who don't want anything from anybody but to go 
> out and
> >> do some fun diving.
> >>
> >> I'm not trying to make peace between you and JT, it does not matter to me
> >> whether you guys get along or not. I just want you to know that most of us
> >> are using argon on our belts, using the long hose, spreading the word
> >> because yours and JJ's system works. And I myself appreciate your efforts
> >> over the years greatly. And I hope JJ makes a million on his business, the
> >> scuba industry could use a company with some integrity for a change.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>
> >>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >>> Date: 14 Mar 2001 07:06:58 -0500
> >>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Kevin Connell 
> <kevin@co*.ne*>,
> >>> dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*, vbtech@ci*.co*
> >>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>
> >>> Jim, I've done enough of this in all respects to know how to pull it off
> >>> easily. I have spent my life on and in the water. Nobody wants to 
> listen to
> >>> that. I have no time to argue.
> >>> You guys keep beating your heads against the wall - that is easier than
> >>> simply looking at somebody who does it flawlessly every time, now 
> isn't it?
> >>>
> >>> What you guys are doing is no different than when Bill Stone tried to do
> >>> Wakulla. He took 3 months to get to where I sent Ted Cole , Chris
> >> Werner and
> >>> John Rose with my scooters after drawing them a map and telling them 
> how to
> >>> do it and where to drop. They did it and JJ and I passed them in the
> >> cave on
> >>> the way to 19 grand.
> >>>
> >>> 3 months of diving daily and Stone could not get there. I see you guys
> >> doing
> >>> exactly the same thing, and like Stone, you all think you know better 
> than
> >>> the guy who has done it over and over and never fucked up and always gets
> >>> the job done and never has any excuses, and then when I make a comment, I
> >>> have to listen to personal bullshit out of JT about my girlfriend.
> >>>
> >>> You guys are done with me. The personal bullshit had finished that. 
> Try JJ.
> >>> My bet is he is done , too. There are those who want to learn, and
> >> those who
> >>> want to prove something. I have no time for the latter. There are too 
> many
> >>> people out there who are smart enough to carry the ball, and that is
> >> where I
> >>> am going to focus any help that I am willing to give. The know it 
> alls can
> >>> keep knowing it all and putting out the bullshit and excuses.
> >>>
> >>> When I read that shit about the argon bottles coming out of the 
> velcro and
> >>> the lift bags shot from 275 feet, I finally realized that you guys 
> have not
> >>> listened to anything, not learned anything, and are only posing in a bad
> >>> attempt to mimic part of what you "think" we are doing with zero
> >>> understanding of any of the logic.
> >>>
> >>> We do not use those liftbags for that , and we do not use tank mounted
> >> argon
> >>> to wreck dive.
> >>> We do not do ANYTHING you guys are currently doing. I found your 
> operation
> >>> up there ill thought out and extremely dangerous, and JT is the 
> ringleader.
> >>> I want no association with any of that kind of activity.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:29 PM
> >>> To: Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*; VB Tech
> >>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes, the resentment factor is there. George, you have a track record
> >> you are
> >>> proud of and who can blame you. And the fact is that JT has pulled 
> off some
> >>> pretty decent dives himself, no matter how much you may disapprove of his
> >>> technique. Fact is he runs a tight ship and will not let people dive with
> >>> him who are not up to his standards, which, believe it or not, are very
> >>> high. I would not have qualified, nor would I have asked as I know 
> what his
> >>> requirements are. As a matter of fact I think Rick Atkins is the only
> >> person
> >>> with whom he will do this deep stuff at this time.
> >>>
> >>> It's not every day that attempts are made to identify a wreck at near 
> 500'
> >>> in the gulf stream, certainly more could be said about the attempt 
> than the
> >>> criticism that was the core of your comments. Sure he might have found it
> >>> with a grouper ball and Cuban reel, but then maybe one of 100 other 
> factors
> >>> could have intervened as well. Some people have to travel their own
> >> road and
> >>> make their own discoveries. Certainly you learned untold amounts of stuff
> >>> the hard way. And if they survive certainly some level of
> >> congratulations is
> >>> in order.
> >>>
> >>> And if you don't survive the attempt, here is an very interesting 
> quote by
> >>> Homer Hickam in Chowdhury's book The Last Dive-
> >>>
> >>> "The diving community, for all its references to the gentle
> >> contemplation of
> >>> the beauty of the undersea world, is actually a very harsh group. 
 > From all
 >>> those who dare to enter it, we demand near perfection in skill and form,
> >>> including the method and style of our dying. To die while diving is one
> >>> thing, but to die poorly is to wipe clean all the tributes and laurels we
> >>> might have gathered during our diving careers. All divers know this, 
> and so
> >>> it is somewhere in our minds on every dive--the need, if it comes to 
> that,
> >>> to die cleanly and bravely, if not wisely. We are a band of brothers and
> >>> sisters who admire the lost cave diver (or wreck diver) who stubbornly
> >>> clings to life to the end, breathing down his tank to the nubs, but we
> >>> disdain the diver who panics and dies with a tank still half-filled with
> >>> gas. Both divers are just as dead, just as foolish, but one is allowed to
> >>> ascend into our version of Valhalla while the other is sent to diving
> >>> Purgatory for all eternity."
> >>>
> >>> You may be 10,000 ft back and a cave roof collapses on you head. No 
> amount
> >>> of DIR will save you from that. But you would damn sure make it
> >> Valhalla and
> >>> I think JT would as well. But I doubt it will come to that, both you guys
> >>> are too damn good and too damn lucky.
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>>
> >>>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >>>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >>>> Date: 13 Mar 2001 19:39:50 -0500
> >>>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, vbtech@ci*.co*, Kevin
> >>> Connell
> >>>> <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim, the resentment factor is always going to make it impossible for 
> those
> >>>> guys to learn from me any more than Tom Mouth could learn from me. 
> That is
> >>>> your guys problem, not mine. You guys have not even scratched the 
> surface
> >>> of
> >>>> what I know that makes me and the WKPP tick on this whole subject, and
> >>> while
> >>>> you personally have no problem learning from me, your buddies can not do
> >>> it.
> >>>> Their loss , not mine. I know, they are guessing. Real simple.
> >>>>
> >>>> What it boils down to is that I can say a few things here and there, and
> >>>> most people are smart enough to get it, but when it comes to the real
> >>> deal,
> >>>> if I want to rock, I grab a few WKPP guys and DIR with no bullshit. The
> >>> only
> >>>> way to go. I do not fuck with anyone who does not get the joke.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:25 AM
> >>>> To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*;
> >>>> captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> George-
> >>>>
> >>>> While I have read plenty of bullshit posts on this list about improbable
> >>>> profiles I must say that I have never read JT or anybody else associated
> >>>> with VBtech tell anything but the truth on actual bottom times and deco
> >>>> schedules.
> >>>>
> >>>> On the contrary we listen very closely to your continuing research on
> >>>> extreme diving survival strategies and JT and his dive partners have 
> done
> >>>> much over the years to apply deep stops, Trimix deco gases and other
> >>>> techniques you, JJ and the WKPP have pioneered and made available to
> >>> fellow
> >>>> techdivers.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you yourself have said that the Ocean is no place for WKPP style
> >>> bottom
> >>>> times and we agree completely, there are too many variables associated
> >>> with
> >>>> ocean diving to screw around with hours-long deco, particularly up 
> here in
> >>>> the north. Heroic bottom times are not a part of our tech diving and 
> never
> >>>> will be. I do agree with you that a deep scooter should be a 
> prerequisite
> >>>> for this type of high current diving, if you don't have one it appears
> >>> that
> >>>> it's pretty much a crapshoot on getting to your target.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >>>>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >>>>> Date: 6 Mar 2001 05:47:36 -0500
> >>>>> To: Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*,
> >>>>> vbtech@ci*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kev, these guys bounce to a wreck and spend two minutes and call it 30,
> >>>> and
> >>>>> then deco for a week. That is the one or two they actually hit. The 
> rest
> >>>> are
> >>>>> sand drift dives in the Gulf Stream that take all day.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When we do it we get my brother's or fathers boat or charter other
> >>> persons
> >>>>> who have fast boats with excellent fishing sounders that will mark
> >>>> anything,
> >>>>> and sometimes we run a second boat as well. We mark them with the Cuban
> >>>> hand
> >>>>> reel and grouper ball with the freediving float and then scooter 
> from up
> >>>>> current down to the line and then along the line below the current 
> to the
> >>>>> wreck, and when we are done, we cut the grouper ball off and reel 
> up the
> >>>>> float line and deco out on the drift. I have a stockpile of 40 
> pound iron
> >>>>> "balls" for this. They hit every time with the Cuban reel and the tuna
> >>>> line
> >>>>> . For longer projects, we charter a boat for the time it takes to 
> get it
> >>>>> done, like the Bahamian stuff that Carmichael was doing. That was all
> >>>>> massive depth and no bullshit or misses - ever.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For the regular weenie wrecks we mark them with a hook and line and
> >>>> scooter
> >>>>> in, secure the line, dive, then pull the hook and drift with the float.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scooters and rebreathers for the crazy stuff. Double 80's for the 
> weenie
> >>>>> wrecks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@co*.ne*]
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:59 PM
> >>>>> To: dwiden@ho*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You guys sure get your panties in a wad easy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The point is this:  You can kill yourself doing anything.   Using the
> >>>>> argument "people die on rebreathers" is not a reason not to dive one in
> >>>>> general.   What's next?  Don't use a proper scooter because they might
> >>>>> actually allow you to get something done on a dive and you only can 
> find
> >>>>> one wreck a year so you might get bored?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 08:00 PM 3/5/2001 -0500, David B. Widen wrote:
> >>>>>> Kevin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So what is the purpose of your post. If you have nothing reasonable
> >>> (good
> >>>>> or
> >>>>>> bad) to say about an activity then do not waste the bandwidth.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> David
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: listowner@ci*.co* [mailto:listowner@ci*.co*]On
> >>>>>> Behalf Of Kevin Connell
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:08 PM
> >>>>>> To: trey@ne*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> JT, Do you drive a car? Ride in an airplane?  I'm not even sure 
> you can
> >>>>>> walk, because legs have been known to kill people.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to 
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
> >>>> VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >>>>> com >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
> >>> VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >>>> com >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to 
> VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >>> com >>
> >
> > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
> > water"
> > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> > Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> >
> >
> >

"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the 
water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email     captjt@mi*.co*


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