JT, yes you are telling the truth, but I don't think you needed to "george"
George, it's not your style.

   Jim
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/

> From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:15:36 -0500
> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, <vbtech@ci*.co*>, Kevin Connell
> <kevin@co*.ne*>, <dwiden@ho*.co*>
> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
> 
> At 04:51 PM 3/14/01 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote: I don't agree
>> with JT's posts, I think he's better than that,
> 
> I am better than that, everything I said was in private and was not on the
> lists, you as were a few others were cc on it. I lowered myself to his
> standards, but never once did I say anything about his girlfriend, it was
> all about him. I exposed Kevin in those same emails for what he was and he
> ask to be removed. Jim, you were witness to those emails, am I telling the
> truth.
> 
>> but George in your battles
>> you have gone personal with quite a few people now and then, so you really
>> shouldn't be belly-aching about JT's posts. Sticks and stones and all that.
>> 
>> I am pissed at you comparing us to Stone... Stone was a huge bullshit
>> artist, he did a giant scam bilking millions out of gullible idiots,
>> screwing over you and lying to all divers. This is not an appropriate
>> comparison to us guys who don't want anything from anybody but to go out and
>> do some fun diving.
>> 
>> I'm not trying to make peace between you and JT, it does not matter to me
>> whether you guys get along or not. I just want you to know that most of us
>> are using argon on our belts, using the long hose, spreading the word
>> because yours and JJ's system works. And I myself appreciate your efforts
>> over the years greatly. And I hope JJ makes a million on his business, the
>> scuba industry could use a company with some integrity for a change.
>> 
>> Jim
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>> 
>>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
>>> Date: 14 Mar 2001 07:06:58 -0500
>>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>,
>>> dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*, vbtech@ci*.co*
>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>> 
>>> Jim, I've done enough of this in all respects to know how to pull it off
>>> easily. I have spent my life on and in the water. Nobody wants to listen to
>>> that. I have no time to argue.
>>> You guys keep beating your heads against the wall - that is easier than
>>> simply looking at somebody who does it flawlessly every time, now isn't it?
>>> 
>>> What you guys are doing is no different than when Bill Stone tried to do
>>> Wakulla. He took 3 months to get to where I sent Ted Cole , Chris
>> Werner and
>>> John Rose with my scooters after drawing them a map and telling them how to
>>> do it and where to drop. They did it and JJ and I passed them in the
>> cave on
>>> the way to 19 grand.
>>> 
>>> 3 months of diving daily and Stone could not get there. I see you guys
>> doing
>>> exactly the same thing, and like Stone, you all think you know better than
>>> the guy who has done it over and over and never fucked up and always gets
>>> the job done and never has any excuses, and then when I make a comment, I
>>> have to listen to personal bullshit out of JT about my girlfriend.
>>> 
>>> You guys are done with me. The personal bullshit had finished that. Try JJ.
>>> My bet is he is done , too. There are those who want to learn, and
>> those who
>>> want to prove something. I have no time for the latter. There are too many
>>> people out there who are smart enough to carry the ball, and that is
>> where I
>>> am going to focus any help that I am willing to give. The know it alls can
>>> keep knowing it all and putting out the bullshit and excuses.
>>> 
>>> When I read that shit about the argon bottles coming out of the velcro and
>>> the lift bags shot from 275 feet, I finally realized that you guys have not
>>> listened to anything, not learned anything, and are only posing in a bad
>>> attempt to mimic part of what you "think" we are doing with zero
>>> understanding of any of the logic.
>>> 
>>> We do not use those liftbags for that , and we do not use tank mounted
>> argon
>>> to wreck dive.
>>> We do not do ANYTHING you guys are currently doing. I found your operation
>>> up there ill thought out and extremely dangerous, and JT is the ringleader.
>>> I want no association with any of that kind of activity.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:29 PM
>>> To: Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*; VB Tech
>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, the resentment factor is there. George, you have a track record
>> you are
>>> proud of and who can blame you. And the fact is that JT has pulled off some
>>> pretty decent dives himself, no matter how much you may disapprove of his
>>> technique. Fact is he runs a tight ship and will not let people dive with
>>> him who are not up to his standards, which, believe it or not, are very
>>> high. I would not have qualified, nor would I have asked as I know what his
>>> requirements are. As a matter of fact I think Rick Atkins is the only
>> person
>>> with whom he will do this deep stuff at this time.
>>> 
>>> It's not every day that attempts are made to identify a wreck at near 500'
>>> in the gulf stream, certainly more could be said about the attempt than the
>>> criticism that was the core of your comments. Sure he might have found it
>>> with a grouper ball and Cuban reel, but then maybe one of 100 other factors
>>> could have intervened as well. Some people have to travel their own
>> road and
>>> make their own discoveries. Certainly you learned untold amounts of stuff
>>> the hard way. And if they survive certainly some level of
>> congratulations is
>>> in order.
>>> 
>>> And if you don't survive the attempt, here is an very interesting quote by
>>> Homer Hickam in Chowdhury's book The Last Dive-
>>> 
>>> "The diving community, for all its references to the gentle
>> contemplation of
>>> the beauty of the undersea world, is actually a very harsh group. From all
>>> those who dare to enter it, we demand near perfection in skill and form,
>>> including the method and style of our dying. To die while diving is one
>>> thing, but to die poorly is to wipe clean all the tributes and laurels we
>>> might have gathered during our diving careers. All divers know this, and so
>>> it is somewhere in our minds on every dive--the need, if it comes to that,
>>> to die cleanly and bravely, if not wisely. We are a band of brothers and
>>> sisters who admire the lost cave diver (or wreck diver) who stubbornly
>>> clings to life to the end, breathing down his tank to the nubs, but we
>>> disdain the diver who panics and dies with a tank still half-filled with
>>> gas. Both divers are just as dead, just as foolish, but one is allowed to
>>> ascend into our version of Valhalla while the other is sent to diving
>>> Purgatory for all eternity."
>>> 
>>> You may be 10,000 ft back and a cave roof collapses on you head. No amount
>>> of DIR will save you from that. But you would damn sure make it
>> Valhalla and
>>> I think JT would as well. But I doubt it will come to that, both you guys
>>> are too damn good and too damn lucky.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>> 
>>>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>>>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
>>>> Date: 13 Mar 2001 19:39:50 -0500
>>>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, vbtech@ci*.co*, Kevin
>>> Connell
>>>> <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>>> 
>>>> Jim, the resentment factor is always going to make it impossible for those
>>>> guys to learn from me any more than Tom Mouth could learn from me. That is
>>>> your guys problem, not mine. You guys have not even scratched the surface
>>> of
>>>> what I know that makes me and the WKPP tick on this whole subject, and
>>> while
>>>> you personally have no problem learning from me, your buddies can not do
>>> it.
>>>> Their loss , not mine. I know, they are guessing. Real simple.
>>>> 
>>>> What it boils down to is that I can say a few things here and there, and
>>>> most people are smart enough to get it, but when it comes to the real
>>> deal,
>>>> if I want to rock, I grab a few WKPP guys and DIR with no bullshit. The
>>> only
>>>> way to go. I do not fuck with anyone who does not get the joke.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:25 AM
>>>> To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*;
>>>> captjt@mi*.co*
>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> George-
>>>> 
>>>> While I have read plenty of bullshit posts on this list about improbable
>>>> profiles I must say that I have never read JT or anybody else associated
>>>> with VBtech tell anything but the truth on actual bottom times and deco
>>>> schedules.
>>>> 
>>>> On the contrary we listen very closely to your continuing research on
>>>> extreme diving survival strategies and JT and his dive partners have done
>>>> much over the years to apply deep stops, Trimix deco gases and other
>>>> techniques you, JJ and the WKPP have pioneered and made available to
>>> fellow
>>>> techdivers.
>>>> 
>>>> And you yourself have said that the Ocean is no place for WKPP style
>>> bottom
>>>> times and we agree completely, there are too many variables associated
>>> with
>>>> ocean diving to screw around with hours-long deco, particularly up here in
>>>> the north. Heroic bottom times are not a part of our tech diving and never
>>>> will be. I do agree with you that a deep scooter should be a prerequisite
>>>> for this type of high current diving, if you don't have one it appears
>>> that
>>>> it's pretty much a crapshoot on getting to your target.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
>>>>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
>>>>> Date: 6 Mar 2001 05:47:36 -0500
>>>>> To: Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*,
>>>>> vbtech@ci*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kev, these guys bounce to a wreck and spend two minutes and call it 30,
>>>> and
>>>>> then deco for a week. That is the one or two they actually hit. The rest
>>>> are
>>>>> sand drift dives in the Gulf Stream that take all day.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When we do it we get my brother's or fathers boat or charter other
>>> persons
>>>>> who have fast boats with excellent fishing sounders that will mark
>>>> anything,
>>>>> and sometimes we run a second boat as well. We mark them with the Cuban
>>>> hand
>>>>> reel and grouper ball with the freediving float and then scooter from up
>>>>> current down to the line and then along the line below the current to the
>>>>> wreck, and when we are done, we cut the grouper ball off and reel up the
>>>>> float line and deco out on the drift. I have a stockpile of 40 pound iron
>>>>> "balls" for this. They hit every time with the Cuban reel and the tuna
>>>> line
>>>>> . For longer projects, we charter a boat for the time it takes to get it
>>>>> done, like the Bahamian stuff that Carmichael was doing. That was all
>>>>> massive depth and no bullshit or misses - ever.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the regular weenie wrecks we mark them with a hook and line and
>>>> scooter
>>>>> in, secure the line, dive, then pull the hook and drift with the float.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scooters and rebreathers for the crazy stuff. Double 80's for the weenie
>>>>> wrecks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@co*.ne*]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:59 PM
>>>>> To: dwiden@ho*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You guys sure get your panties in a wad easy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The point is this:  You can kill yourself doing anything.   Using the
>>>>> argument "people die on rebreathers" is not a reason not to dive one in
>>>>> general.   What's next?  Don't use a proper scooter because they might
>>>>> actually allow you to get something done on a dive and you only can find
>>>>> one wreck a year so you might get bored?
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 08:00 PM 3/5/2001 -0500, David B. Widen wrote:
>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So what is the purpose of your post. If you have nothing reasonable
>>> (good
>>>>> or
>>>>>> bad) to say about an activity then do not waste the bandwidth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: listowner@ci*.co* [mailto:listowner@ci*.co*]On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Kevin Connell
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:08 PM
>>>>>> To: trey@ne*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> JT, Do you drive a car? Ride in an airplane?  I'm not even sure you can
>>>>>> walk, because legs have been known to kill people.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
>>>> VBTech-request@ci*.=
>>>>> com >>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>> --
>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
>>> VBTech-request@ci*.=
>>>> com >>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to VBTech-request@ci*.=
>>> com >>
> 
> "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the
> water"
> Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> 
> 
> 


--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]