At 04:51 PM 3/14/01 -0500, Jim Cobb wrote: I don't agree
>with JT's posts, I think he's better than that,

I am better than that, everything I said was in private and was not on the 
lists, you as were a few others were cc on it. I lowered myself to his 
standards, but never once did I say anything about his girlfriend, it was 
all about him. I exposed Kevin in those same emails for what he was and he 
ask to be removed. Jim, you were witness to those emails, am I telling the 
truth.

>but George in your battles
>you have gone personal with quite a few people now and then, so you really
>shouldn't be belly-aching about JT's posts. Sticks and stones and all that.
>
>I am pissed at you comparing us to Stone... Stone was a huge bullshit
>artist, he did a giant scam bilking millions out of gullible idiots,
>screwing over you and lying to all divers. This is not an appropriate
>comparison to us guys who don't want anything from anybody but to go out and
>do some fun diving.
>
>I'm not trying to make peace between you and JT, it does not matter to me
>whether you guys get along or not. I just want you to know that most of us
>are using argon on our belts, using the long hose, spreading the word
>because yours and JJ's system works. And I myself appreciate your efforts
>over the years greatly. And I hope JJ makes a million on his business, the
>scuba industry could use a company with some integrity for a change.
>
>    Jim
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
>
> > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> > Date: 14 Mar 2001 07:06:58 -0500
> > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>,
> > dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*, vbtech@ci*.co*
> > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >
> > Jim, I've done enough of this in all respects to know how to pull it off
> > easily. I have spent my life on and in the water. Nobody wants to listen to
> > that. I have no time to argue.
> > You guys keep beating your heads against the wall - that is easier than
> > simply looking at somebody who does it flawlessly every time, now isn't it?
> >
> > What you guys are doing is no different than when Bill Stone tried to do
> > Wakulla. He took 3 months to get to where I sent Ted Cole , Chris 
> Werner and
> > John Rose with my scooters after drawing them a map and telling them how to
> > do it and where to drop. They did it and JJ and I passed them in the 
> cave on
> > the way to 19 grand.
> >
> > 3 months of diving daily and Stone could not get there. I see you guys 
> doing
> > exactly the same thing, and like Stone, you all think you know better than
> > the guy who has done it over and over and never fucked up and always gets
> > the job done and never has any excuses, and then when I make a comment, I
> > have to listen to personal bullshit out of JT about my girlfriend.
> >
> > You guys are done with me. The personal bullshit had finished that. Try JJ.
> > My bet is he is done , too. There are those who want to learn, and 
> those who
> > want to prove something. I have no time for the latter. There are too many
> > people out there who are smart enough to carry the ball, and that is 
> where I
> > am going to focus any help that I am willing to give. The know it alls can
> > keep knowing it all and putting out the bullshit and excuses.
> >
> > When I read that shit about the argon bottles coming out of the velcro and
> > the lift bags shot from 275 feet, I finally realized that you guys have not
> > listened to anything, not learned anything, and are only posing in a bad
> > attempt to mimic part of what you "think" we are doing with zero
> > understanding of any of the logic.
> >
> > We do not use those liftbags for that , and we do not use tank mounted 
> argon
> > to wreck dive.
> > We do not do ANYTHING you guys are currently doing. I found your operation
> > up there ill thought out and extremely dangerous, and JT is the ringleader.
> > I want no association with any of that kind of activity.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 9:29 PM
> > To: Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*; VB Tech
> > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >
> >
> > Yes, the resentment factor is there. George, you have a track record 
> you are
> > proud of and who can blame you. And the fact is that JT has pulled off some
> > pretty decent dives himself, no matter how much you may disapprove of his
> > technique. Fact is he runs a tight ship and will not let people dive with
> > him who are not up to his standards, which, believe it or not, are very
> > high. I would not have qualified, nor would I have asked as I know what his
> > requirements are. As a matter of fact I think Rick Atkins is the only 
> person
> > with whom he will do this deep stuff at this time.
> >
> > It's not every day that attempts are made to identify a wreck at near 500'
> > in the gulf stream, certainly more could be said about the attempt than the
> > criticism that was the core of your comments. Sure he might have found it
> > with a grouper ball and Cuban reel, but then maybe one of 100 other factors
> > could have intervened as well. Some people have to travel their own 
> road and
> > make their own discoveries. Certainly you learned untold amounts of stuff
> > the hard way. And if they survive certainly some level of 
> congratulations is
> > in order.
> >
> > And if you don't survive the attempt, here is an very interesting quote by
> > Homer Hickam in Chowdhury's book The Last Dive-
> >
> > "The diving community, for all its references to the gentle 
> contemplation of
> > the beauty of the undersea world, is actually a very harsh group. From all
> > those who dare to enter it, we demand near perfection in skill and form,
> > including the method and style of our dying. To die while diving is one
> > thing, but to die poorly is to wipe clean all the tributes and laurels we
> > might have gathered during our diving careers. All divers know this, and so
> > it is somewhere in our minds on every dive--the need, if it comes to that,
> > to die cleanly and bravely, if not wisely. We are a band of brothers and
> > sisters who admire the lost cave diver (or wreck diver) who stubbornly
> > clings to life to the end, breathing down his tank to the nubs, but we
> > disdain the diver who panics and dies with a tank still half-filled with
> > gas. Both divers are just as dead, just as foolish, but one is allowed to
> > ascend into our version of Valhalla while the other is sent to diving
> > Purgatory for all eternity."
> >
> > You may be 10,000 ft back and a cave roof collapses on you head. No amount
> > of DIR will save you from that. But you would damn sure make it 
> Valhalla and
> > I think JT would as well. But I doubt it will come to that, both you guys
> > are too damn good and too damn lucky.
> >
> > Jim
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >
> >> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >> Date: 13 Mar 2001 19:39:50 -0500
> >> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>, vbtech@ci*.co*, Kevin
> > Connell
> >> <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> >> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>
> >> Jim, the resentment factor is always going to make it impossible for those
> >> guys to learn from me any more than Tom Mouth could learn from me. That is
> >> your guys problem, not mine. You guys have not even scratched the surface
> > of
> >> what I know that makes me and the WKPP tick on this whole subject, and
> > while
> >> you personally have no problem learning from me, your buddies can not do
> > it.
> >> Their loss , not mine. I know, they are guessing. Real simple.
> >>
> >> What it boils down to is that I can say a few things here and there, and
> >> most people are smart enough to get it, but when it comes to the real
> > deal,
> >> if I want to rock, I grab a few WKPP guys and DIR with no bullshit. The
> > only
> >> way to go. I do not fuck with anyone who does not get the joke.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:25 AM
> >> To: vbtech@ci*.co*; Kevin Connell; dwiden@ho*.co*;
> >> captjt@mi*.co*
> >> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> Subject: Re: Deep wreck in FL
> >>
> >>
> >> George-
> >>
> >> While I have read plenty of bullshit posts on this list about improbable
> >> profiles I must say that I have never read JT or anybody else associated
> >> with VBtech tell anything but the truth on actual bottom times and deco
> >> schedules.
> >>
> >> On the contrary we listen very closely to your continuing research on
> >> extreme diving survival strategies and JT and his dive partners have done
> >> much over the years to apply deep stops, Trimix deco gases and other
> >> techniques you, JJ and the WKPP have pioneered and made available to
> > fellow
> >> techdivers.
> >>
> >> And you yourself have said that the Ocean is no place for WKPP style
> > bottom
> >> times and we agree completely, there are too many variables associated
> > with
> >> ocean diving to screw around with hours-long deco, particularly up here in
> >> the north. Heroic bottom times are not a part of our tech diving and never
> >> will be. I do agree with you that a deep scooter should be a prerequisite
> >> for this type of high current diving, if you don't have one it appears
> > that
> >> it's pretty much a crapshoot on getting to your target.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>
> >>> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> >>> Reply-To: vbtech@ci*.co*
> >>> Date: 6 Mar 2001 05:47:36 -0500
> >>> To: Kevin Connell <kevin@co*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*,
> >>> vbtech@ci*.co*, captjt@mi*.co*
> >>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>
> >>> Kev, these guys bounce to a wreck and spend two minutes and call it 30,
> >> and
> >>> then deco for a week. That is the one or two they actually hit. The rest
> >> are
> >>> sand drift dives in the Gulf Stream that take all day.
> >>>
> >>> When we do it we get my brother's or fathers boat or charter other
> > persons
> >>> who have fast boats with excellent fishing sounders that will mark
> >> anything,
> >>> and sometimes we run a second boat as well. We mark them with the Cuban
> >> hand
> >>> reel and grouper ball with the freediving float and then scooter from up
> >>> current down to the line and then along the line below the current to the
> >>> wreck, and when we are done, we cut the grouper ball off and reel up the
> >>> float line and deco out on the drift. I have a stockpile of 40 pound iron
> >>> "balls" for this. They hit every time with the Cuban reel and the tuna
> >> line
> >>> . For longer projects, we charter a boat for the time it takes to get it
> >>> done, like the Bahamian stuff that Carmichael was doing. That was all
> >>> massive depth and no bullshit or misses - ever.
> >>>
> >>> For the regular weenie wrecks we mark them with a hook and line and
> >> scooter
> >>> in, secure the line, dive, then pull the hook and drift with the float.
> >>>
> >>> Scooters and rebreathers for the crazy stuff. Double 80's for the weenie
> >>> wrecks.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@co*.ne*]
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:59 PM
> >>> To: dwiden@ho*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
> >>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You guys sure get your panties in a wad easy.
> >>>
> >>> The point is this:  You can kill yourself doing anything.   Using the
> >>> argument "people die on rebreathers" is not a reason not to dive one in
> >>> general.   What's next?  Don't use a proper scooter because they might
> >>> actually allow you to get something done on a dive and you only can find
> >>> one wreck a year so you might get bored?
> >>>
> >>> At 08:00 PM 3/5/2001 -0500, David B. Widen wrote:
> >>>> Kevin
> >>>>
> >>>> So what is the purpose of your post. If you have nothing reasonable
> > (good
> >>> or
> >>>> bad) to say about an activity then do not waste the bandwidth.
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: listowner@ci*.co* [mailto:listowner@ci*.co*]On
> >>>> Behalf Of Kevin Connell
> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:08 PM
> >>>> To: trey@ne*.co*; vbtech@ci*.co*; captjt@mi*.co*
> >>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >>>> Subject: RE: Deep wreck in FL
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> JT, Do you drive a car? Ride in an airplane?  I'm not even sure you can
> >>>> walk, because legs have been known to kill people.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
> >> VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >>> com >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> >> --
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to
> > VBTech-request@ci*.=
> >> com >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> >
> >
> >
> > << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to VBTech-request@ci*.=
> > com >>

"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the 
water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email     captjt@mi*.co*


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