Its time for true confessions, before I knew about GUE or DIR diving I
purchased a TLS 350 with a big zipper pocket on the right side and a small
tight Velcro pocket on the left...I think George has said many times "we all
got burned with stupid stuff before we knew better".  Any way now that I
know better, about zippers and pocket placement,  can the factory, DUI,
remove the pockets; place the Velcro pocket in its correct location on the
right side and dump the zipper pocket and replace it with a large bellow
pocket on the left side?
 
Or, because of all the glued surfaces, do I really need to purchase a second
TLS 350?
 
 
 
\-----Original Message-----
From: trey@ne*.co* [mailto:trey@ne*.co*]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 6:43 AM
To: Duane Liptak Jr; techdiver@aquanaut.com; Adam
Subject: NO Zippers, was RE: DUI CLX VS TLS



Duane, you are so right. When I want my safety gear, like my spool, or my
hose converter to make any stage into a rebreather supply bottle, or a two
cord, or some double enders, or a clip or an arrow, or my fourth light ,I
want it right now and I do not want a zipper in the way. Even a thread
across a zipper will lock it up. Why even risk this series of obstacles? How
many times does the zipper on a dive bag screw up? Why make things
complicated and unnecessary? Why create risk where there was none ? ( Oh, I
forgot, this is dive gear , never mind .)
 
The correct way is to put bungee loops in the pocket, and then clip all gear
to the loops. The loops are put through a hole at the leading edge of the
pocket and burn tied. You flip open the pocket and feel for the item, and
pull it out on its loop and unclip it. If the clip jams due to certain types
of clay or minerals in the water ( or other damage ) as is very likely in
certain caves ( like the Florida Panhandle, or inside old shipwrecks ), you
can cut the loop. This is why we do not put d-rings in a pocket.
 
The other pocket ( on the right side ) is tight and you put small items in
the bottom . I have  cork in a plastic bag for my p valve in case for some
reason it were to break off inside the through-hull fitting  ( I do not use
the screw kind as I do not want a possible problem with that, and I prefer
to balance the inside chamber by referencing it to the suit and I have three
checks ), a mouthpiece and wire ties in case I loose a rebreather mouthpiece
, a wrist seal that I can slide over my existing seal if it rips ( for
scootering ), and my underwater book.
 
The big problem with dive gear is too many cooks in the kitchen: everyone
wants to come up with some slick idea. There is nothing new under the sun.
Keep it simple, avoid creating problems that come with thinking too hard
about something that needs to be reflex perfect and not convoluted.
 
If you can not explain it in one line, it will not work underwater.
 
Velcro opens with a flip. I have a Chinese guy at the laundry who fixes my
zippers. You need him with you if you are putting a zipper between you and
anything you want underwater, and he won't dive with strokes. He has fixed
too many zippers.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Duane Liptak Jr [mailto:d.liptak.jr@wo*.at*.ne*]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 3:57 PM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Adam
Subject: Re: DUI CLX VS TLS


Adam, the issue with zippers is simple.  Although remote, the possibility
for failure exists, and in several areas.  Zippers can jam.  Teeth can get
deformed, debris can be introduced during the dive.  Zipper pulls can come
off.  Zippers are awkward to open and close around the corners of the
typical square pocket.  Maintaining a zipper can help reduce the risk of
failure, but it cannot absolutely eliminate it.
 
It is completely impossible to cause a velcro pocket to fail in a manner
that would preclude you from getting at the safety gear inside.  Whether you
maintain it or not, whether it gets dirty during the dive, whether half the
damn thing gets ripped off or not, you will never be prevented from getting
at your spools, etc.   If the velcro fails in a manner that doesn't keep the
pocket securely closed (which is entirely possible, although highly unlikely
with a minimum of maintenance-if it's not sticking-replace it) It's a moot
point.  All of your safety gear should be clipped off inside the pocket
anyway.  You won't lose anything, and you don't have to accept the risk of
possible zipper failure.  It's kind of like the downstream vs upstream
regulator issue-the velcro pocket fails safe.  The zipper pocket fails in a
way that can complicate any number of already bad situations.  
 
Just because a drunk driver gets away with driving drunk thousands of times
without incident, does that mean what he's doing is safe?  Just because your
zippers have never failed before, does that mean that they won't ever fail,
and at the worst possible time?  Why accept unnecessary risk??  
 
Dive Safe,
Duane

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam < deepwrecks@ya*.co* <mailto:deepwrecks@ya*.co*> >
To: techdiver < techdiver@aquanaut.com <mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com> >
Date: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:40 PM
Subject: DUI CLX VS TLS


>Bullshit. It takes a grain of sand or a piece of shell debris to jam a zip.
You can pick that up and get a jam from it during a dive. 

Billyw, Lets be realistic here a grain of sand or a piece of shell??? DUI
has heavy-duty zippers. If you neglect cleaning it for a long time I must
agree you will encounter problems. If you can - think over the years how
many different kinds of equipment had functional zippers on them both tech
or non-tech. BC's, boots, gloves, suits, both OMS and Dive Right have
utility pockets with zippers. Halcyon has zippers on their BC's. Point is as
long as you properly maintain your equipment just like everything else
zippers will function properly. 

>IF Velcro deteriorates, it doesn't happen instantly. It gets slack first.
And guess what, Einstein, that's when you replace it. 

You don't have to be Einstein to agree to that point. The day you realize
your Velcro is slacking is the day you loose peace of equipment. Years ago
Viking had Velcro closures on their pockets. Then they switched to
combination of Velcro, 1 inch webbing and plastic quick connect. Guess why
they did that? Himm!!! May be Velcro was not holding the contents of the
pocket. 

>Are you saying that because you've had no problem with your zip pocket so
far, you never will and no-one else will either? 

Why don't you read what I wrote! Instead of manipulating what you see. All I
wrote was - I had no problems with the zippers. At no point I said I would
not have problems. Not that it maters I would type it slowly for you so you
can understand easy. My point is - One could eliminate potential equipment
problems if one properly maintains their equipment. This includes all
zippers on the dry suit. 

>What, about medium breasts? 

What about it? I have trouble understanding the relation ship between medium
breasts and pockets unless you keep your medium breasts in your Velcro
pockets. And last point. Please keep your childish empty comments to your
self. I don't know why you feel you need to insult or flame. Maybe because
you have noting to say, or maybe you have nothing between your ears. 
Cheers! 
Adam 





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