Marv

I guess I am confused. I have no problem with the steel & dry vs. AL80 & wet
concept.

I have a physical space/foot print problem. How can two sets of 2xAL80 take
the same foot print as 1 set of 2x104s? Al80 are ~7.25" & 104s are ~8" in
diameter. Please explain this space compression.

David


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Marv [mailto:ajmarve@ba*.ne*]
>Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:10 PM
>To: Kevin Connell
>Cc: Paul Braunbehrens; George Irvine; allysonclagett@ea*.ne*;
>'Chris Elmore'; techdiver@aquanaut.com
>Subject: Re: DIHUL, was: Fins question
>
>
>no.
>
>The 80s are smaller tanks than the 104s, i have a set of each in the
>garage and have dove both with dry suit and full dir regalia.
>even with
>an 80 stage and a 40 deco bottle, the dbl 80 rig is not as
>cumbersome as
>the 104s, and i am talking in-water, not dry land. As far as
>deck space
>goes i can carry two sets in the same footprint as one set of 104s.
>Whats not to love.
>
>Marv
>
>Kevin Connell wrote:
>
>> aren't three eighties more weight (and more bulky) than two 104's?
>> We would need an extra stage on a couple of the dives we do.
>>
>> At 11:37 PM 2/25/2001 -0500, Marv wrote:
>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> i just got finished reviewing the available archived posts and i
>>> remain convinced that dbl al 80s are a faster slicker set up for
>>> ocean diving.While 104s give you you a nice package one can acheive
>>> the buoyancy equivalent  with 80s and weights for ocean and have a
>>> rig with no down side that presents less of a hassle while
>transiting
>>> the entry/exit portion of the dive..
>>>
>>> That being said, stick with the 104s until you finish the training,
>>> so you wont have problems with the northwest mafia and then you can
>>> get some 80s on the cheap and compare for yourself; since
>youll have
>>> the manifold all youll need is twos 80s and $75 diverite bands .
>>>
>>> Apparently its one of those things you dont believe until you try,
>>> kind of like the rest of DIR......................................
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> Marv
>>>
>>> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just ordered double 104's based on the idea that this is
>the ideal
>>>> setup.  I'm going to be using this *a lot* off a small
>boat.  Should
>>>> I get something else instead?
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> George Irvine wrote:
>>>> ~
>>>>
>>>>> I keep saying it -  weight yourself so that with little or no gas
>>>>> you can
>>>>> hover at ten feet, and with full gas you can swim up with no
>>>>> inflation by
>>>>> dropping something.
>>>>> That covers it.
>>>>> For tank choice in ocean, big heavy tanks are dangerous boat
>>>>> diving, so are
>>>>> not my first choice. I'd rather add a stage and dive it dry ,
>>>>> leaving my
>>>>> back gas intact.
>>>>> Cave diving is different in that you need more gas to go farther
>>>>> and the
>>>>> decompression is in a safe environment,not open sea with all its
>>>>> vagaries.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marv" <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>
>>>>> To: "George Irvine" <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
>>>>> Cc: <allysonclagett@ea*.ne*>; "'Kevin Connell'"
>>>>> <kevin@co*.ne*>;
>>>>> "'Paul Braunbehrens'" <Bakalite@ba*.co*>; "'Chris Elmore'"
>>>>> <elmorec@at*.ne*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: DIHUL, was: Fins question
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Geroge,
>>>>>>  I am more or less the instigator of this mess , and I
>would like
>>>>>> to just
>>>>>>  bring a couple of things more into focus.
>>>>>>  If you had limited funds< like Paul does> which tank would you
>>>>>> buy, the
>>>>>>  al80s or the 104s, if you were only diving ocean?
>>>>>>  Why exactly is the 80 the "tank of choice" for the ocean? Is
>>>>>> there some
>>>>>>  reason besides buoyancy and  cost?
>>>>>>  What is more important on a deco dive inthe ocean, ability to
>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>  surface by ditching weight to become positive or  remaining
>>>>>> beneath the
>>>>>>  deco ceiling by other means< buddy support divers bring
>gas, etc>
>>>>>>  I am thinking that your primary concern in the ocean
>is drowning,
>>>>>>  followed by inert gas concerns. Which is more or less important
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>  dir diver in the ocean?
>>>>>>  Did i misquote you or miss some context in your original
>>>>>> article<where i
>>>>>>  quoted from your gear config piece re al 80s in the
>ocean, which
>>>>>> is in
>>>>>>  the morass below.> ?
>>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>>  Marv
>>>>>>  George Irvine wrote:
>>>>>>  > Think of it this way , Allyson: whatever you are wearing, you
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>
>>>>> able
>>>>>
>>>>>>  > to stay at ten feet with almost no gas, and you
>should be able
>>>>>> to swim
>>>>>
>>>>> up
>>>>>
>>>>>>  > from depth with no inflation of any kind ( by dropping
>>>>>> something ). If
>>>>>
>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>>>  > can do that, you are DIR. If not, you are a moron ( not you,
>>>>>> Allyson ).
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>  > From: "Allyson" <allysonclagett@ea*.ne*>
>>>>>>  > To: "'Kevin Connell'" <kevin@co*.ne*>; "'Marv'"
>>>>>
>>>>> <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>;
>>>>>
>>>>>>  > "'Paul Braunbehrens'" <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
>>>>>>  > Cc: "'Chris Elmore'" <elmorec@at*.ne*>;
>>>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>>>>>  > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:00 PM
>>>>>>  > Subject: RE: DIHUL, was: Fins question
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> Hi Marv,
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> You're right, George Irvine's "Doing It Right Gear
>Configuration"
>>>>>
>>>>> article
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> says that for ocean diving "aluminum 80's are the tank of
>>>>>> choice."
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > However
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> the article also says "in ocean or lake diving, steel tanks
>>>>>> should
>>>>>
>>>>> never
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > be
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> used without a drysuit."
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> So what I surmise from the article is, if you are diving in
>>>>>> the ocean
>>>>>
>>>>> in a
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> wetsuit, definitely use aluminum 80's--with a wetsuit, never
>>>>>> use steel
>>>>>>  >> tanks.  If you are diving a drysuit in the ocean,
>using steel
>>>>>> tanks is
>>>>>>  >> acceptable (as you will need less weight elsewhere on your
>>>>>> person.)
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> ~Allyson
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>  >> From: Kevin Connell [mailto:kevin@co*.ne*]
>>>>>>  >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 12:08 AM
>>>>>>  >> To: Marv; Paul Braunbehrens
>>>>>>  >> Cc: Chris Elmore; techdiver@aquanaut.com; GUE Mailing List
>>>>>>  >> Subject: Re: DIHUL, was: Fins question
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> Marv, is it DIR because you read something george
>wrote (out of
>>>>>>  >> context)  and you happen to use the same equipment?
>>>>>
>>>>>  > >>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> Can you come out here and retrain everyone, maybe offer some
>>>>>> lectures
>>>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> DIR?   We seem to be stroking out big time with steel tanks.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> armchair  diving at its finest.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> At 11:37 PM 2/20/2001 -0500, Marv wrote:
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> THis is not just a Paul thing but since he brougth
>it up, its
>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> ideal
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> place for it.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> If you are diving in the ocean , what is the ideal tank?
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> not what tank can you make work or what tank is kind of ok,
>>>>>> but what
>>>>>
>>>>> tank
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> is DIR??
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> its the   ALUMINUM 80
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> These tanks are one third the cost of steel
>whatevers and one
>>>>>> fifth
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> weight.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> They are the ultimate tank in terms of buoyancy, when
>>>>>
>>>>> manifolded&doubled
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> up with a steel plate for drysuit diving you will
>not realize
>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>  >>> wearing tanks, they have more than enuff gas for
>most reasonable
>>>>>
>>>>> dives,
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> and they are by definition the dir tank of choice for the
>>>>>> ocean. They
>>>>>
>>>>> are
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> easy to dive with a tls 350, c4 14 size light and a weight
>>>>>> belt or if
>>>>>
>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> must a v weight.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> check out Georges article on wkpp.org if you doubt
>what i am
>>>>>> telling
>>>>>
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> Its right there in black and white.or read below.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Marv
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> From "Equipment Configuration", G. Irvine, wkpp.org
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> "  For ocean, aluminum 80's are the tank of choice. If more
>>>>>> gas is
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  > needed,
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>> take an aluminum stage, but don't risk your life being over
>>>>>> weighted
>>>>>
>>>>> at
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>> the beginning of the dive. The buoyancy characteristics of
>>>>>> aluminum,
>>>>>>  >>> especially when using helium , are such that a weight belt
>>>>>> and or
>>>>>>  >>> canister light will provide the necessary ballast which can
>>>>>> be dropped
>>>>>>  >>> in an emergency, making the rig only reasonably
>negative when
>>>>>> full,
>>>>>>  >>> neutral when empty, but swimable by dropping the weight. "
>>>>>>  >>>                  ----George Irvine
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>> I already replaced a bunch of stuff, this is not the
>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>>  >>>> switching to a DIR setup.  The DIR tanks cost $900
>and weigh
>>>>>> a ton. I
>>>>>>  >>>> can't stomach it in my pocketbook or knees right now.
>>>>>> Someone else
>>>>>
>>>>> said
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> my tanks will work for now.
>>>>>>  >>>> Kevin Connell wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>> ~
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> So what's the problem paul, you only need to replace your
>>>>>> tanks and
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  > your
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>> fins.  you did way better than I did, I had to replace
>>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>  >>>>> Dry gloves are OK as long as the wrist seal is intact.
>>>>>>  >>>>> Drysuit is fine.  it's compressed.  Actually a
>nice suit if
>>>>>> you ask
>>>>>
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> You won't need the weights with proper tanks.
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> At 11:23 AM 2/20/2001 -0800, Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Chris, I've had the twin jets since before I was exposed
>>>>>> to DIR.  I
>>>>>>  >>>>>> also have a neoprene drysuit, a set of HP
>doubles, and an
>>>>>> atomic
>>>>>>  >>>>>> regulator.  Sorry, I just don't have $2k sitting around
>>>>>> right now
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> change all my gear.  I'm trying to figure out what I can
>>>>>> use in the
>>>>>>  >>>>>> tech 1 class, and what I need to change.  In the real
>>>>>> world you
>>>>>
>>>>> need
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  > to
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>> make some compromises.  It's either do the class
>with most
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>
>>>>> gear
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> I have now, or wait until I have the money to switch all
>>>>>> my gear
>>>>>>  >>>>>> around, and that could be a while.  So I"m trying to
>>>>>> figure out
>>>>>
>>>>> what
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> will "work", and what I absolutely have to
>replace now.  I
>>>>>> just
>>>>>
>>>>> priced
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> the jet fins, they are a minor expense, I'll be
>getting them
>>>>>
>>>>> shortly.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Thanks for your offer to let me borrow your stuff, BTW,
>>>>>> but I've
>>>>>
>>>>> long
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> since learned that you need to train using your
>own gear,
>>>>>> if the
>>>>>>  >>>>>> training is to be worth anything.
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Just for kicks, here is a list of what I'm using, as you
>>>>>> can see
>>>>>
>>>>> I've
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> already blown a lot of money...
>>>>>>  >>>>>> PST HP 100 doubles with isolator manifold
>>>>>>  >>>>>> G250/M20 on a necklace, and Atomic on a 7 ft hose.
>>>>>>  >>>>>> brass spg.
>>>>>>  >>>>>> 10 W HID
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Halcyon integrated weights
>>>>>>  >>>>>> OMS SS backplate
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Harness (webbing from EE, the other stuff I had laying
>>>>>> around)
>>>>>>  >>>>>> 2 EE backup lights
>>>>>
>>>>>  > >>>>>> Diving Concepts compressed neoprene drysuit
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Halcyon 65 lb wing (I have some bondage wings sitting in
>>>>>> my garage
>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> case anyone wants them)
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Twin jet fins with spring straps (soon to be Jet fins)
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Halcyon lift bag
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Halcyon Sausage
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Dry gloves with ring system (this was a poor choice, but
>>>>>> I'm stuck
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  > with
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>> it for now).
>>>>>>  >>>>>> So here is the question really.  I just don't have the
>>>>>> bucks to
>>>>>
>>>>> change
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> the drysuit and the tanks right now, and I'm sure those
>>>>>> two are the
>>>>>>  >>>>>> worst offenders.  Should I postpone the class until I've
>>>>>> changed
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  > those,
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>> or should I take the class now?
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Please advise.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> Chris Elmore wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>> ~
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>      George was right, "What are we going to do with
>>>>>> you?" I've
>>>>>
>>>>> been
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> diving
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> since '68 and a pressure gauge is the only thing that
>>>>>> made it past
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  > the
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> DIR
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> purge. To clarify: DIR stands for Doing It Right. It
>>>>>> doesn't mean
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  > Doing
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> It
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Half-assed Until Later. You keep asking questions,
>>>>>> getting good
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> answers then
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> buying crap anyway. Sign up for a GUE course
>and I'll let
>>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>> borrow
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> all my
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> stuff for the week. Geez, put the coffee on.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> C.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Chris Elmore
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> PalmettoSoft Technologies Corp.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> (803) 233-2001 (work)
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> (803) 348-3055 (mobile)
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> From: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> To: <thomas@ha*.ne*>; Steve Schultz
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> <se2schul@bl*.ma*.uw*.ca*>;
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Stefan Bolka <sbolka@er*.co*>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; GUE Mailing List
>>>>>> <quest@gu*.co*>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 11:59 AM
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Fins question
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  Because I've been diving for a couple of decades, and
>>>>>> happen to
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > have
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  some equipment that I purchased before I was
>exposed to
>>>>>> DIR.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  DUH!
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  Thomas Tukker wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  ~
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >Hmmm, never seen any of those in Wakulla...
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >Guess you're in for another purchase.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >Why not buy what you see all DIR divers wear
>in the first
>>>>>
>>>>> place,
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> that
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> might
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >be a money saving strategy if you have a limited
>>>>>> budget to work
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> with
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Paul.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >TT
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  From: Paul Braunbehrens
>[mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*]
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 2:07 AM
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  To: Steve Schultz; Stefan Bolka
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com; GUE Mailing List
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Subject: Re: Fins question
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Steve, that's not my experience.  I was also
>>>>>> wondering if
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> twin
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  jets are DIR, 'cause when I got a dry
>suit and had
>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> larger fins
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  I did get the twin jets.  As far as how well they
>>>>>> work, they
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> work
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  very well.  No cramps, and you will move faster.
>>>>>> They don't
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> "feel"
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  like you're doing much work, i.e. there isn't much
>>>>>
>>>>> resistance
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> to work
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  against, but if you compare against known
>variables
>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>
>>>>> see
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> that
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  your speed under water has improved.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  I sure hope they're ok, 'cause I'm
>already going to
>>>>>> blow a
>>>>>
>>>>> lot
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> of
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>  > >>  money on other stuff including the tech1 class,
>>>>>> and don't
>>>>>>  >>>>>>
>>>>>>  > want
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> to
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  have to buy fins as well.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Cheers.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Steve Schultz wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  ~
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >Stefan,
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >Data can be manipulated statistically to serve
>>>>>> whoever is
>>>>>
>>>>>  > >>>>>>>> publishing
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> the
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >info.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >When you read info about fin efficiency,
>see who is
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > publishing
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> data,
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >and ask yourself if they have something to gain.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >More importantly, try it yourself in the water.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >I tried the bio-fin a couple years ago
>when appollo
>>>>>
>>>>> sponsored
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> an
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >expedition.  I found the fins sucked.  I
>mean really
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> sucked.  I dive
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> Jets
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >and only Jets now. Give me 10 pairs of bio-fins
>>>>>> for free,
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> I'll
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> still
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >be diving my Jets.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >Whoever said bio-fins are more efficient
>probably
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>
>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> calf
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >muscles, or they sell them.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >BTW, the best DIR equipment list so far
>is on the
>>>>>> WKPP
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > website.
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>> George
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >posted his configuration.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >ss
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Stefan Bolka wrote:
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>  Ok this is probably gonna get me hurt but...
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>  Has anyone thought about the natures
>wing, i.e.
>>>>>> scubapro
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> twin jet
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>fins or Apollo bio fin for DIR.  I ask
>because I
>>>>>> recognize
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> that
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>many of us (like me) do not have
>scooters and the
>>>>>> test
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > numbers
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>showing better efficiency sound
>encouraging.  Do
>>>>>> these
>>>>>
>>>>> work
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> for
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>frog kicks?  Could they be used for
>tech. and not
>>>>>> cave or
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> cavern?
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>  I am asking because I am trying to
>start making
>>>>>> a "DIR
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >> approved
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>equipment list".  yes I have too much
>time on my
>>>>>> hands and
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>> figured
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>it makes sense to try and help new divers get
>>>>>> into DIR
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>methodologies so I am working on a FAQ.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>  If anyone has start a FAQ and not
>finished let
>>>>>> me know,
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  > I'll
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  help finish it.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>  Thanks for the help,
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>  Stefan.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  >For additional commands, e-mail:
>quest-help@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  --
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  Paul B.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>  For additional commands, e-mail:
>quest-help@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  Paul B.
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> -
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>>  For additional commands, e-mail: quest-help@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> -- Paul B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: quest-help@gu*.co*
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> --
>>>>>>  >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>  >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>>>
>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> --
>>>>>>  >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>  >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>>>
>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>  Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>>  Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>>>>>
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