arrogant rat's ass.

Terry Michael schrieb:
> 
> dip shit.
> --
> 
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:58:00
>  Matthias Voss wrote:
> >Jim,
> >what you referred to is more or less what everybody knows( should
> >know,pardon). It is , so to speak , an answer referring to the quality
> >of symptoms.
> >
> >Chris' question was one concerned with -quantity-.
> >
> >That is , dependency of symptoms in relation to time and partial
> >pressure.
> >I suspect it as common knowledge, too, that these dependencies deal with
> >gravity of symptoms, their time dependant reversability, and their
> >evidence, if at all , in diving.
> >
> >What does your biblio have to offer for that ?
> >We also know the OSHA/ NOAA Limits , I suppose.
> >
> >What does a student want to know from you, when he asks, which ppo2 is
> >safe ?
> >The evident answer seems to be, do not surpass a value of 1.x pp,certain
> >time limits,  a cns level of yy percent,avoid getting cold, high
> >workload, and you will not get ( whatever).
> >
> >This answer is "wrong".
> >The correct answer would be , if you keep within the limits ( x,y) , the
> >hypothesis "nothing will happen" cannot be falsified.
> >Or , if your surpass limits (r,z) , the hypothesis "something is likely
> >to happen to you" has some undeniable statistical background.
> >
> >In between those limits lies a zone which says " supply more data".
> >
> >It is this zone Chris supposedly assumed you wanted to say more about.
> >
> >The data I have seen do not represent statistical relevant hits below a
> >ppo2 of 1.7, so some restraint is advisable, but subject to the time/
> >workload/ cold/ stress  factor.
> >No lineaar functions implied.
> >
> >Lung tox , which you referred to , is of concern only for very long
> >exposures, which neither are everybodies cup of teanor general practice,
> >nor being apt to generalisation.
> >
> >So, to enable you to give a more definite answer, the question should be
> >modified/ split up a bit.
> >
> >" Industry-wide ban", to my point of you, smells like " quit thinking
> >about matters which WE think you are not able to understand .
> >This is a dead end street, in diving and in general.
> >
> >regards
> >-Matthias
> >
> >Jim Cobb schrieb:
> >>
> >> Chris-
> >>
> >> Welllll, let's see here. Ah, here we go, Chapter 8 of Diving Medicine, some
> >> tidbits of a very interesting (or maybe depressing) article:
> >>
> >> "oxygen toxicity is caused by the production of free radical intermediates
> >> in excessive concentrations during exposure to increased oxygen pressures"
> >>
> >> "the pathological response of the lung to oxygen toxicity can be
> >> differentiated into two overlapping phases of progressive deterioration.
The
> >> fires is an acute exudateive phase consisting of interstitial and alveolar
> >> edema, intra-alvelolar hemorrhage, fibrinous exudate, hyaline membranes,
> >> swelling and destruction of capillary endothelial cells, and destruction of
> >> type I alveolar epithelial cells" (Christ that's just phase one)
> >>
> >> "Changes in pulmonary function which have been measured in humans during
and
> >> after prolonged exposures to oxygen pressures of 1.0 at or higher include
> >> decrements in inspiratory and expiratory lung volumes and flow rates,
carbon
> >> monoxide diffusing capacity, and lung compliance." (that's at 1.0, folks)
> >>
> >> So, Chris, I don't think you can always measure damage by the number of
> >> stiffs floating around in Her Royal Majesty's Waters. The question you have
> >> to ask is fucking up your lungs permanently worth a few minutes of saved
> >> deco? You are much better off exposing your lungs to the high PP02s when
you
> >> are at deco resting and can give your lungs low PP02 intervals from your
> >> back gas. I think you high PP02 nitrox hounds ought to think things over a
> >> bit more carefully.
> >>
> >>    Jim
> >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> >>
> >> > From: Chris Stenton <jacs@gn*.co*.uk*>
> >> > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:26:26 +0100
> >> > To: cobber@ci*.co*
> >> > Cc: "dmdalton" <dmdalton@qu*.ne*>, dwiden@ho*.co*,
> >> > donburke56@ne*.ne*, "'Paul Braunbehrens'" <Bakalite@ba*.co*>,
> >> > techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> > Subject: Re: rec trimix
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I know this is going to piss off a lot of rec divers but I believe that
> >> >> increasing your bottom PP02's for the purpose of avoiding a deco
obligation
> >> >> is
> >> >> a really stupid idea. It is typical of our sport that this principle is
> >> >> embraced by almost everybody. Even to the point of calling potentially
deadly
> >> >> hyperoxic mixes "safeair".
> >> >
> >> >> I think there should be an industry-wide ban of bottom or working
PP02's of
> >> >> anything over 1.2.
> >> >
> >> > Jim,
> >> >
> >> > Give us some statistics or physiology  to back this up. I haven't seen
one
> >> > report of a recreational "no stop dives" diving  death or oxtox hit
attributed
> >> > to using Nitrox at a ppO2 of 1.4 or below here in the UK.
> >> >
> >> > Far more important surely is getting the people "at risk" out to do some
more
> >> > exercise. How about removing people cert cards who can't run a 6min
mile; far
> >> > more likely to reduce the work load of the emergency services than some
> >> > arbitrary ppO2 limit of 1.2.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Chris
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
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> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> >
> 
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