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To sell this to the rec community, it has to show itself to be better than air in as many respects as possible. The offshoot of the original thread that I am on is "unnarcing the rec diver." I don't think I could sell deco stops _or_ shorter no stop times to a new diver. Could you? Nitrox is unlikely to go away for no stop diving shallower than about 80 feet. Why should it? The rest of your post seems to agree with me. Don Burke Chesapeake, Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: dmdalton <dmdalton@qu*.ne*> To: <dwiden@ho*.co*>; <donburke56@ne*.ne*>; 'Paul Braunbehrens' <Bakalite@ba*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: 09 October, 2000 01:20 Subject: Re: rec trimix > David, Don & whomever else, > > Why does this need to be a gas that "tracks" air? Anyone who would be > interested in the minimal extra training necessary for a recreationally > oriented Trimix would either already be Nitrox trained or certainly capable > of it. As was already pointed out a Tri-Ox course could easily make Nitrox a > thing of the past. If we are talking about "no stop dives" then wouldn't it > make sense to boost the O2 level to get some increased bottom time? A 21X24 > @ 130 ft for 5 minutes calls for 1 min at 30, 20 & 10 (Deco Planner GF - lo > 25/hi 90). While a 28 X 35 gives you 10 min @ 130 and only adds 1 min at 40 > ft to the above. Nitrox has it's limits and so would Tri-Ox. I would venture > to say that an individual breathing Tri-Ox of 28 X 35 would be far less > likely to ignore the 130 ft limit than someone breathing EAN 28. > > As for the Rec Agencies, I think they will be the ones to embrace this mix > which would be one more specialty that they could get into their curriculum. > They certainly have all embraced devil gas, I'm sorry, Nitrox. Yeah, I know > it took a while but when Tri-Ox hit's for real they will all jump on it like > a chicken on a June bug. The gentleman I took Nitrox from ( a former NOAA > Nitrox Diver of 14 years) was talking about standardized Tri-Ox 32 & Tri-Ox > 36, 3 years ago when I took the course. > > I believe the bigger challenge is the few shops that pump Trimix. In the DC > area I know of only one shop that pumps it and I understand that they are > getting in the neighborhood of $80 for a single tank of Trimix. Outlandish, > but then I understand that in NY you can get hit up $20 for a single of > Nitrox. > > Dave Dalton > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David B. Widen <dwiden@ho*.co*> > To: <donburke56@ne*.ne*>; 'Paul Braunbehrens' <Bakalite@ba*.co*>; > <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 2:53 PM > Subject: RE: rec trimix > > > > Don > > > > Good thought. It will be hell to get the rec agency to support. > > I ran some of the numbers through Deco Planner and some other > calculations. > > > > To more closely track air and without penalties a 21x24 works with END of > 80 > > IAW DecoPlanner and END of 90 if you calc with N2 & O2 as narcotic gases. > > Without building the whole tables w/SIT and repet groups. There are > several > > general mixes that would work well. The Normoxic value would serve the > > uninformed or hard headed person who exceeds 130. It would also support > and > > assist in the transistion of new divers to this type of dive gas and idea. > > > > Type Cost: 21x24 $.215/cuft 21x30 $.252/cuft > > AL80 21x24 ~$17 21x30 ~$20 > > ST95 21x24 ~$21 21x30 ~$24 > > > > Cost increase 3 to 5 times without over fills. > > > > David > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Don Burke [mailto:donburke56@ya*.co*] > > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 7:56 AM > > > To: Paul Braunbehrens; techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > Subject: Re:rec trimix > > > > > > > > > Comments scattered within > > > > > > --- Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> wrote: > > > > I think that this is where trimix computers come in. > > > > Even if it's a > > > > good "drop in" gas, I'd still like to track what I'm > > > > really using. > > > > > > Certainly. It isn't rocket science in any case. I > > > haven't worked out _every_ possibility so the He > > > content may have to be backed off a couple of points > > > to stay inside the air tables. > > > > > > A set of rec-tri tables wouldn't seem to be too hard > > > to make up for repetitive diving, although PADI would > > > probably have to actually come up with a new set of > > > surface interval numbers to allow for He instead of > > > the Xerox solution used for the surface intervals on > > > the PADI EAN tables. > > > > > > > > > > Also, because of O2 Tox there would have to be some > > > > kind of an > > > > "orientation class" at the least. If you go down to > > > > 160 on air and > > > > come back up right away you're stupid, but you won't > > > > tox on O2. A > > > > "drop in" gas would need some serious warning if it > > > > has a higher O2 > > > > content. > > > > > > Yeah, the orientation would be: > > > > > > "Remember when I told you to stay shallower than 130? > > > Well this time I mean it." > > > > > > You didn't mention the CNS clock, but since we are on > > > the subject of O2, I haven't figured out a way to run > > > out the clock with 28% O2 without going well into deco > > > stop diving or going below 130. I doubt there is one. > > > > > > > Don Burke wrote: > > > > ~ > > > > >As variation on the same theme, how about 28/35 as > > > > a "drop-in" replacement for air? > > > > > > > > > >It is good to 130 feet under any conditions a rec > > > > diver will see. > > > > > > > > > >The no stop times are longer than for air. > > > > > > > > > >The END at 130 feet is about 80 feet. > > > > > > > > > >The only downside is cost. > > > > > > > > > >Don Burke > > > > >Chesapeake, Virginia > > > > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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