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--Apple-Mail-2058895479-5 content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dave- Like I wrote in my post I do not discount proper training. And I also = mentioned that you should be proficient in mixing nitrox before you = attempt trimix. But I do submit that you could take a rec diver with 4 = dives under his belt put a tank of 21/20 on his back and the only thing = the diver would notice is a more enjoyable diving experience. I also submit that a large portion of panic attacks suffered by new = divers is in part caused by the unfamiliar sensation of narcosis. Around = here beginning divers regularly do their training dives in 90+ ft of = cold, murky water, a prime environment for narcosis induced = clusterfucks. On any given weekend you can see these new divers doing = panic-stricken free ascents popping up like mushrooms all around the = dive boat. Now these new divers should not mix their own trimix but perhaps trimix = should be the REAL "safeair" (I still laugh my ass off when I see = potentially toxic mixtures of nitrox labeled "safeair", what genius came = up with that). Anyway I see your point that some people need training and hand-holding = more than others and should be prepared to pay for it. Jim On Friday, October 6, 2000, at 06:46 AM, David B. Widen wrote: Jim =A0 You do not represent the typical diver. You do the research and reading = before you jump in. Many of these people will just jump in. The reason = for training is to ensure that at least some=A0level of understanding = and knowledge is in place. You are opening a door for people to use = something they may not have the knowledge to use and get hurt. =A0 You know some of the same people I do. Would you want to turn some of = those folk loose on trimix without them getting some guidance? So where = is the line between the between those with enough good sense to doit = with out training and those that need the training to get them on the = right road=A0and doing thing right. =A0 Trimix diving is technical diving. There is more to technical diving = them just having the equipment, some O2, and in this case HE. =A0 David -----Original Message----- From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:55 PM To: Paul Braunbehrens Cc: Mcinnis, Don; 'RDecker388@ao*.co*'; scottk@hc*.co*; = techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on While I am not discounting the need for proper training, you don't need = squat for certification to dive with trimix. I have yet to see a = industrial gas supplier ask for a c-card for tanks of 02 and He. And as = far as the the air tops are concerned it's pretty much a "don't ask, = don't tell" policy at the dive shops I've visited. If your diveshop is = an asshole about this, then it's time to move on. Personally I believe that if you are proficient at mixing nitrox and are = currently mixing it on a regular basis, there is no reason one earth why = you can't shitcan your nitrox wrist computer, get DecoPlanner for your = laptop and go trimix diving. It ain't rocket science, folks. Jim On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, at 11:41 AM, Paul Braunbehrens wrote: No kidding! I'm doing it right now, adv. nitrox, stage deco and trimix just because I want to use He. It's actually ironic that you have to do a deco class to use trimix. It seems to me they are separate subjects. You won't get a fill without it though. Mcinnis, Don wrote: ~ >Bob, > >What's the prerequisite in shingles needed to get into it? Usually = needed is >the advanced nitrox, decompression techniques, and then the "entry = level >trimix" course at least. All this for being able to dive with a clear = head >between 70 and 150'. Scott's point all along is there needs to be a = "rec" >HOTx course with something like a nitrox C-card pre-req to open up He = to >more people without having to go through 4 extra courses (not to = mention >about $2000 or more) just to dive HOTx which is by definition = relatively >shallow (less logistics) diving. -- Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio on the mac -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. --Apple-Mail-2058895479-5 content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable content-type: text/enriched; charset=iso-8859-1 <fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param>Dave- Like I wrote in my post I do not discount proper training. And I also = mentioned that you should be proficient in mixing nitrox before you = attempt trimix. But I do submit that you could take a rec diver with 4 = dives under his belt put a tank of 21/20 on his back and the only thing = the diver would notice is a more enjoyable diving experience. I also submit that a large portion of panic attacks suffered by new = divers is in part caused by the unfamiliar sensation of narcosis. Around = here beginning divers regularly do their training dives in 90+ ft of = cold, murky water, a prime environment for narcosis induced = clusterfucks. On any given weekend you can see these new divers doing = panic-stricken free ascents popping up like mushrooms all around the = dive boat. Now these new divers should not mix their own trimix but perhaps trimix = should be the REAL "safeair" (I still laugh my ass off when I see = potentially toxic mixtures of nitrox labeled "safeair", what genius came = up with that). Anyway I see your point that some people need training and hand-holding = more than others and should be prepared to pay for it. Jim On Friday, October 6, 2000, at 06:46 AM, David B. Widen wrote: = </fontfamily><flushleft><smaller><italic><fontfamily><param>Ar ial</param><= x-tabstops><param>28L;56L;84L;112L;140L;168L;196L;224L;252L;280L;308L;336L= ;</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>Jim</color></x-ta bstops></fon= tfamily></italic></smaller><x-tabstops><param>28L;56L;84L;112L;140L; 168L;1= 96L;224L;252L;280L;308L;336L;</param><color><param>0000,0000,0000</p aram><= fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>=A0</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000< /param><font= family><param>Helvetica</param> = </fontfamily><smaller><italic><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</pa ram><fontfam= ily><param>Arial</param>You do not represent the typical diver. You do = the research and reading before you jump in. Many of these people will = just jump in. The reason for training is to ensure that at least = some=A0level of understanding and knowledge is in place. You are opening = a door for people to use something they may not have the knowledge to = use and get = hurt.</fontfamily></color></italic></smaller><fontfamily><para m>Helvetica<= /param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>=A0</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000< /param><font= family><param>Helvetica</param> = </fontfamily><smaller><italic><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</pa ram><fontfam= ily><param>Arial</param>You know some of the same people I do. Would you = want to turn some of those folk loose on trimix without them getting = some guidance? So where is the line between the between those with = enough good sense to doit with out training and those that need the = training to get them on the right road=A0and doing thing = right.</fontfamily></color></italic></smaller><fontfamily><par am>Helvetica= </param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>=A0</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000< /param><font= family><param>Helvetica</param> = </fontfamily><smaller><italic><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</pa ram><fontfam= ily><param>Arial</param>Trimix diving is technical diving. There is more = to technical diving them just having the equipment, some O2, and in this = case = HE.</fontfamily></color></italic></smaller><fontfamily><param> Helvetica</p= aram> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>=A0</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000< /param><font= family><param>Helvetica</param> = </fontfamily><smaller><italic><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</pa ram><fontfam= ily><param>Arial</param>David</fontfamily></color></italic></s maller><font= family><param>Helvetica</param> = <smaller><italic></italic></smaller></fontfamily></color><i talic><fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param>-----Original = Message-----</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</p aram><fon= tfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic><bold></bold></italic></fontfamily></color><italic> <bold><fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param>From:</fontfamily></bold><fontfamily>& lt;param>Hel= vetica</param> Jim Cobb = [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,00= 00,0000</param><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic><bold></bold></italic></fontfamily></color><italic> <bold><fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param>Sent:</fontfamily></bold><fontfamily>& lt;param>Hel= vetica</param> Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:55 = PM</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param><f ontfamily><p= aram>Helvetica</param> = <italic><bold></bold></italic></fontfamily></color><italic> <bold><fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param>To:</fontfamily></bold><fontfamily>< ;param>Helve= tica</param> Paul = Braunbehrens</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</p aram><fon= tfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic><bold></bold></italic></fontfamily></color><italic> <bold><fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param>Cc:</fontfamily></bold><fontfamily>< ;param>Helve= tica</param> Mcinnis, Don; 'RDecker388@ao*.co*'; scottk@hc*.co*; = techdiver@aquanaut.com</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000, 0000</= param><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic><bold></bold></italic></fontfamily></color><italic> <bold><fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param>Subject:</fontfamily></bold><fontfamil y><param>= Helvetica</param> RE: clarification was: An the beat goes on and = on</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param><f ontfamily><p= aram>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>While I am not discounting the need for proper training, you = don't need squat for certification to dive with trimix. I have yet to = see a industrial gas supplier ask for a c-card for tanks of 02 and He. = And as far as the the air tops are concerned it's pretty much a "don't = ask, don't tell" policy at the dive shops I've visited. If your diveshop = is an asshole about this, then it's time to move = on.</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>< fontfamily><= param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>Personally I believe that if you are proficient at mixing nitrox = and are currently mixing it on a regular basis, there is no reason one = earth why you can't shitcan your nitrox wrist computer, get DecoPlanner = for your laptop and go trimix diving. It ain't rocket science, = folks.</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>& lt;fontfamil= y><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>Jim</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000< /param><font= family><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>On Wednesday, October 4, 2000, at 11:41 AM, Paul Braunbehrens = wrote:</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>& lt;fontfamil= y><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>No kidding! I'm doing it right now, adv. nitrox, stage deco = and</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>< fontfamily><= param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>trimix just because I want to use He. It's actually ironic that = you</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>< fontfamily><= param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>have to do a deco class to use trimix. It seems to me they = are</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>< fontfamily><= param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>separate subjects. You won't get a fill without it = though.</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param> <fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>Mcinnis, Don = wrote:</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>& lt;fontfamil= y><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>~</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</p aram><fontfa= mily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>Bob,</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000&l t;/param><fo= ntfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>></fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</p aram><fontfa= mily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>What's the prerequisite in shingles needed to get into it? = Usually needed = is</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param><f ontfamily><p= aram>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>the advanced nitrox, decompression techniques, and then the = "entry = level</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>&l t;fontfamily= ><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>trimix" course at least. All this for being able to dive with a = clear = head</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>< ;fontfamily>= <param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>between 70 and 150'. Scott's point all along is there needs to = be a = "rec"</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>&l t;fontfamily= ><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>HOTx course with something like a nitrox C-card pre-req to open = up He = to</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param><f ontfamily><p= aram>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>more people without having to go through 4 extra courses (not = to = mention</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param> <fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>about $2000 or more) just to dive HOTx which is by definition = relatively</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</par am><fontf= amily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>>shallow (less logistics) = diving.</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param> <fontfami= ly><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>--</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</ param><fontf= amily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>Paul Braunbehrens = mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000 ,= 0000</param><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio on the = mac</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>< fontfamily><= param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>--</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,0000,0000</ param><fontf= amily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to = `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.</fontfamily></italic><color><param>0000,00 00,000= 0</param><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param> = <italic></italic></fontfamily></color><italic><fontfamily>< param>Helvetica= </param>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</fontfamily></italic><color><param >0000,= 0000,0000</param><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param> </fontfamily></color></x-tabstops></flushleft>= --Apple-Mail-2058895479-5-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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