When it comes a choice of saving/losing time or spending money, spend the
money.You can replace money,never replace time!
So, dive air = saving money = using time
 dive mix = spending money = saving time
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "gzambeck1" <gzambeck1@me*.ne*>
To: "Capt JT" <captjt@mi*.co*>
Cc: ""George \"Trey\" Irvine"" <trey@ne*.co*>; <dwiden@ho*.co*>;
"'Scott'" <scottk@hc*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on and on


> Gentlemen why don't you tell everyone how much you spend on helium per
year
>
> Greg Z.
>
> Capt JT wrote:
>
> > Trey, you are exactly right, but you must point out that the whip you
speak
> > of only goes one way. If you are doing stage mixes and they are yoke,
you
> > will need an adapter, you also need to be able to go to 02 or He
cylinder =
> > more parts or second whip.
> > The welding dealers here will sale you the gas, but you must have a
> > contract and pay cylinder rental. This is no new world for me, I have
never
> > used anything but welding gas.
> > It is also a fact that more than one or 2 or even 3 cylinders must be
used
> > to obtain a fill in a set of doubles with a high He content, more so
when
> > filling your own 02 deco tanks when doing a pressure fill. I am
constantly
> > cycling out the low cylinders and putting new full ones at the end of
the
> > "line" to have the high pressure one needs from doing the transfer
pressure
> > fill procedure.
> > A booster pump makes it much easier, I will venture to say I make less
> > income than any diver who dives as much as I do and I do not do deep
air.
> > It is a real burden for me, but it proves that if I can do it, so can
those
> > who should quit diving deep air and be real leaders.
> >
> >   At 08:24 PM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
> > >JT, I have Sherwood parts and the flex hose , T's
> > >and fittings that come from the gas supplier. 80
> > >bucks.  The difference between the "grades" of
> > >helium is the prices and the number of times they
> > >vacuum the bottles. It all comes from the same tank.
> > >
> > >The suppliers here will not sell welding for diving
> > >due to the accidents, but if one wanted to open an
> > >account as a welding operation, one could, but I get
> > >it delivered to the house. I'll pay the extra for
> > >the convenience.
> > >
> > >I realize this is Brave New World for most of you,
> > >but get serious, it is dead nuts simple.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*>
> > >To: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>; dwiden@ho*.co*
> > ><dwiden@ho*.co*>; 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>;
> > >techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > >Date: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:03 PM
> > >Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat goes on
> > >and on
> > >
> > >
> > > >Actually your both right and both wrong. No one
> > >here gets He and 02 as
> > > >cheap as I do. Of all the postings I've seen on
> > >prices, no one comes even
> > > >close to my price. Then again I am using Industrial
> > >grade gas ( better
> > > >known as welding gas) I do not offer it to anyone
> > >else as it becomes a
> > > >hassle for me to get and not everyone is
> > >comfortable with it, some think
> > > >they must have medical grade gas. Those that must
> > >purchase He though a dive
> > > >shop, must pay the higher price because they, in
> > >the best interest of the
> > > >customer must use the medical grade gas, which is
> > >much higher in cost. If
> > > >they did not and something happen surely a dive
> > >Lawyer of some kind would
> > > >get involved. Also I saw mentioned of a price for
> > >330cuft of He. There is
> > > >not a cylinder for that amount. A "T" bottle of He
> > >holds 286 cuft at 2,640
> > > >psi and a "K" bottle holds 213 cuft at 2,200 psi.
> > >There is a seldom used
> > > >cylinder called a HC-500 which holds 432 cuft at
> > >4,500 psi , but I have
> > > >been unable to get one.  Those that have been to my
> > >home and seen the rows
> > > >of He and 02 can't believe I keep that much here.
> > >  I also have argon)
> > > >As for the whip, yes you can purchase a piss poor
> > >whip for 80 dollars, that
> > > >has no Gauge and is as short as my dick. I have the
> > >most advance portable
> > > >transfer whip "kit" made, with gauges, hose,
> > >anlayzer, quick disconnects
> > > >that allow me to do everything I need in a
> > >transfer. The 80 dollars won't
> > > >buy the pelican box that carries the stuff.It did
> > >not come from a dive shop.
> > > >Sometime this weekend I will put on my site all the
> > >facts about the 02,He
> > > >T&K bottles and others along with details and
> > >photos, I have often heard
> > > >people ask what the difference was, from this post
> > >you all should know now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >At 08:38 AM 9/29/00 -0400, Trey wrote:
> > > >>ALL BULLSHIT - grade of helium means nothing. Here
> > >in SF we have to use USP
> > > >>because of the accidents that Mouth's idiots have
> > >had, but "welding" helium
> > > >>is fine. The parts can be obtained from the gas
> > >supplier, a whip is about 80
> > > >>bucks absolute MAX . You idiots are just used to
> > >the standard dive industry
> > > >>bullshit.
> > > >>
> > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>From: David B. Widen <dwiden@ho*.co*>
> > > >>To: 'Scott' <scottk@hc*.co*>;
> > ><techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > >>Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:03 AM
> > > >>Subject: RE: clarification was: An the beat goes
> > >on and on
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Scott
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I do not know where in the world you are but
> > >for USP HE I wish we could
> > > >>get
> > > >> > it from the suppliers for .13 ft. You are
> > >probably getting welding grade
> > > >>for
> > > >> > that. Plus you need to add the tank
> > >rental/delivery charges and unusable
> > > >>gas
> > > >> > (can get it all out) cost to the cu ft charge.
> > >The last time I check, a
> > > >>good
> > > >> > HE/O2 Parcial Pressure filler whip with gauges
> > >is $600-$800, O2 analyzer,
> > > >> > ignore the compressor and labor. What are parts
> > >of the business are there
> > > >> > cover.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > David
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > > From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*]
> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:13 AM
> > > >> > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com; Trey
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat
> > >goes on and on
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > The next thing we have to work on is a way to
> > >get the
> > > >> > > agencies to embrace
> > > >> > > hyperoxic trimix, and get it into the hands
> > >of advanced level
> > > >> > > recreational
> > > >> > > divers. I have been turning people on to HOTx
> > >for 6 months,
> > > >> > > but there are
> > > >> > > several problems:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Most people are charging .65 to .75 a foot
> > >for He, which is
> > > >> > > ludicrous, since
> > > >> > > the cost is a round .13 a foot. The typical
> > >reasons are
> > > >> > > "because I have to
> > > >> > > buy a compressor" blah, blah, blah. As a
> > >parallel, one of my
> > > >> > > buds has an
> > > >> > > office supply biz. He has two copiers that
> > >cost more than any
> > > >> > > compressor,
> > > >> > > and he gets a nickel a copy off one, and .25
> > >a copy from the
> > > >> > > other. Others
> > > >> > > sell double fills of trimix for 80 to 120
> > >dollars. We can
> > > >> > > double the money
> > > >> > > on our gas at $16 for singles, and around $28
> > >to $32 for most
> > > >> > > dubs. This rip
> > > >> > > off has to be brought to light as well.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > NO ONE should have to take $9,000 worth of
> > >TDI or IANTD
> > > >> > > training to be able
> > > >> > > to use the gas, which, in reality, is *safer*
> > >than air for diving.
> > > >> > > Without a trimix shingle, or a guy like me
> > >who will do a fill
> > > >> > > for people I
> > > >> > > know, they are unable to use the gas anywhere
> > >else, unless
> > > >> > > they blend it in
> > > >> > > their garage, which many are doing.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I took a gent out yesterday to dive on the
> > >gas, and he was
> > > >> > > amazed at how
> > > >> > > much better he felt afterwards. Normally, his
> > >hands really
> > > >> > > hurt after diving
> > > >> > > air (slightly arthritic), but HOTx didn't
> > >have that effect.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I brought this up to the "instructor base"
> > >over on rec.scuba, and they
> > > >> > > howled like a bunch of mashed cats. NAUI and
> > >IANTD totally
> > > >> > > missed the ball
> > > >> > > on this one with their "Normoxic trimix
> > >course", which is
> > > >> > > just another way
> > > >> > > to separate you from your money.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Before anyone starts screaming, lets just
> > >remember the noise made when
> > > >> > > Nitrox was suggested for recreational divers.
> > >Mountains of
> > > >> > > dead divers were
> > > >> > > predicted...
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Scott
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> > > From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > >> > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Mike Strong
> > ><divermike@fn*.ne*>
> > > >> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:09 PM
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: clarification was: An the beat
> > >goes on and on
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > If all of us insist that these guys do
> > >things properly ,
> > > >> > > then they will
> > > >> > > find
> > > >> > > > a way to do that.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > The problem is that when idiots like
> > >Gilliam get into the
> > > >> > > mix, we all
> > > >> > > > suffer. I can't imagine traveling 12,000
> > >miles to dive in a
> > > >> > > great spot and
> > > >> > > > doing it on air.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > We have the same problem in New Jersey,
> > >where the Seeker
> > > >> > > idiots proudly
> > > >> > > dive
> > > >> > > > air and bullshit gear, like "poney" bottles
> > >of air with air
> > > >> > > in doubles
> > > >> > > >  just to be sure there is no mistake about
> > >how dumb they are) with
> > > >> > > > slobwinders to turn the ponies on. They
> > >serve a clientele
> > > >> > > of strokes.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > The harder we make it for the idiots to be
> > >idiots, the
> > > >> > > better it will be
> > > >> > > for
> > > >> > > > all of us.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> > > > From: Mike Strong <divermike@fn*.ne*>
> > > >> > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > >> > > > Cc: <trey@ne*.co*>
> > > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:37 PM
> > > >> > > > Subject: clarification was: An the beat
> > >goes on and on
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > > List:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > There has been some confusion about my
> > >views, and what I
> > > >> > > did or did not
> > > >> > > > say
> > > >> > > > > regarding a Truk Lagoon Trip.  Most of
> > >these messages were in the
> > > >> > > private
> > > >> > > > > forum, but I want to say all this in the
> > >open.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > I DO NOT support any form of deep air
> > >diving, diving
> > > >> > > below 130' without
> > > >> > > > > Helium, or any diving operation involved
> > >with Brett
> > > >> > > Gilliam, TDI, or any
> > > >> > > > of
> > > >> > > > > his buddies.  The shop I work for is
> > >taking a trip to
> > > >> > > Truk, on the boat
> > > >> > > > > Odyssey.  This vessel, at the encouraging
> > >of Bret
> > > >> > > Gilliam, allows *and*
> > > >> > > > > supports Deep air diving to depths of
> > >200, because
> > > >> > > Gilliam says in the
> > > >> > > > > ocean you are safe to that depth.  I DO
> > >NOT agree.  It is
> > > >> > > very clear
> > > >> > > that
> > > >> > > > > this guy is a moron, and the charter
> > >company is falling
> > > >> > > victim to his
> > > >> > > > > stupidity.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > As for the trip, I have suggested to
> > >several members of
> > > >> > > the trip that
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > > > answer is to limit the diving on the trip
> > >to depths of
> > > >> > > 130 or shallower,
> > > >> > > > or
> > > >> > > > > not go at all.  (Helium, which is
> > >available, is *very*
> > > >> > > expensive, so my
> > > >> > > > > thinking is that it makes more sense to
> > >not do the deep
> > > >> > > dives, rather
> > > >> > > than
> > > >> > > > > to pay for the He)  As for the other
> > >suggestions on the
> > > >> > > list regarding
> > > >> > > > > "diving to 140 or 150, mabey the 200 foot
> > >dive...," in
> > > >> > > Truk, I also DO
> > > >> > > NOT
> > > >> > > > > agree with this.  This is the exact thing
> > >we all are
> > > >> > > trying to get away
> > > >> > > > > from, It is not safe, nor is it "OK," to
> > >do these dives
> > > >> > > without the use
> > > >> > > of
> > > >> > > > > Helium.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > I am a firm supporter of the DIR idea and
> > >those who have
> > > >> > > put in the time
> > > >> > > > > and effort to make it work--If you want
> > >to do it DIR in
> > > >> > > Truk, you have 3
> > > >> > > > > choices:  Pay for the gas, stay above
> > >130, or refer to
> > > >> > > Rule #1.  Most, I
> > > >> > > > > would think would refer to Rule
> > >#1........
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Finally, I would like to point out that
> > >it is up to us as
> > > >> > > divers to get
> > > >> > > > the
> > > >> > > > > point across to these charters....deep
> > >air is not safe.
> > > >> > > I hope this
> > > >> > > post
> > > >> > > > > has cleared up this mess, and that
> > >everyone knows where I
> > > >> > > stand now.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Best,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Mike Strong
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > --
> > > >> > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list
> > >to
> > > >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >> > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > > >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> > > >> > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > > >> > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
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> > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>--
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> > > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
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> > > >
> > > >"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or
> > >later you have to get in the
> > > >water"
> > > >Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East
> > >Coast & more
> > > >  Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > > >Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in
the
> > water"
> > Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
> >   Web Site  http://www.capt-jt.com/
> > Email     captjt@mi*.co*
> >
> > --
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