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The line is knotted every ten feet. Starting with any tie-in, I take the depth, then I count the knots, and then I take the azimuth of the line , then start over with the tie off or any change in the cave that has some feature, and repeat that process. I write down the estimated distance to the walls and ceiling or floor and the shape as well as where the line is in the passage. At deco, I add notes in from my memory of the cave, and later draw in in on my own map, and then send the data to Werner for the FGS and Mike Kravitt for out computerized maps, and Todd Kincaid for our three D maps. I can remmber that stuff like a human face, as in a picture that I can not forget, and I can do it at 150 feet per minute as fast as Jarrod can lay the line. That is why I have always been the WKPP survey guy. This allows us to always know where we have been, and does not slow us down at all. Lately, JJ and I have been doing it just a little differently : I run the video camera on him while he lays the line, and at the end we switch and he videos me while I survey out. You can see those pictures on our web site under "images" , the first listing by me and JJ. The"Mini Mee" self-contained , snap on camera rig is what we use - digital through a nose lens with two HID's built in on the housing - a riot. Those images are from 19,000 feet into Wakulla Springs, what we call "walking down and fucking them all". http://www.wkpp.org >George: > >When you survey a cave, do you simply use the amount of line laid in the >cave as your survey distance? > >Or do you try to determine the distance one would travel down through the >center of a cave passage? > >It would seem to me that the actual line distance could underestimate the >length of the cave if you are always cutting all the inside corners with the >line. > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Trey [mailto:trey@ne*.co*] >> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 4:11 AM >> To: Kent R. Frazier; TechDiver >> Subject: Re: Cave Penetration Measurement >> >> >> Penetration from an opening. We went 19,000 feet >> from an opening and back - the worlds record, which >> broke our own records of 18,000, 14,265, 14,065, etc >> etc... The Mexico stuff has nothing in excess of >> about 2500 feet from an opening, and that is in 20 >> feet of water. >> >> You have to look at who the blithering idiots are it >> who put that out and you will see the answer. >> >> On the other hand, as far as surveyed passages in >> underwater caves, there are three in Mexico that are >> the three longest underwater caves in the World - Ox >> Bel Ha, NoHoach, and Dos Pendejos. Leon Sinks, in >> Florida , where we dive, has 110,000 feet, and is a >> distant fourth to these other caves, but is 300 feet >> deep,and is the longest underwater cave in the >> United States. Wakulla Springs, another cave we >> dive, has 57,000 feet of surveyed passage, all >> between 280 and 300 feet deep with one entrance >> only. Leon has 26 known entrances, the furthest >> apart being 14,700 feet right now ( the World record >> traverse , held by WKPP) , and the closest being >> about 200 feet. >> >> By way of comparison,the Mammoth Cave System in >> Kentucky , a dry cave, is some 500 MILES of surveyed >> passage. >> >> The significance of these records for our cave >> diving is that they show or superior ability to >> conduct these activities where all others have >> failed, and that is do SOLELY to DIR. The >> information gathered about diving , equipment and >> what works is second to none in our operation. We >> were doing this kind of diving and gas diving prior >> to the existence of any of the training agencies >> that pretend to teach it ( while fighting us tooth >> and nail) . Keep that in mind when some IANTD moron >> tries to tell you what a big time diver he is - a >> joke at best. >> >> The other significance of these records is that they >> call attention to the resources we are exploring, >> since ereryones show up to see us get killed, and as >> you know , they have all been severely disappointed. >> >> >> >Being a non-cave diver, I was wondering about how >> cave penetration was >> >measured. >> >I started thinking about this after seeing a thread >> on rec.scuba where World >> >Record Penetrations was briefly discussed. There >> were some comparisons made >> >between what the WKPP had done, and some cave >> penetrations in Mexico (I >> >think). Something was mentioned about measuring to >> the nearest surface >> >opening. For my question, let's use the following >> very simple example: >> > >> >Please correct any terminology misusage. >> > >> >The entrance to Cave A (tunnel(?)) is from a spring >> (Spring A) and travels a >> >distance of 500 feet. It then opens up into another >> spring B) with a direct >> >vertical exit to the surface. Also in Spring B is >> another Tunnel (Cave B) >> >that travels for another 500 feet and ends in a >> room type cave that has no >> >other passageways (dead ends). Let's call this Cave >> C. >> > >> >Question: Would traveling from the entrance to Cave >> A to Cave C be >> >considered a single penetration of 1000 feet or >> two 500 foot penetrations >> >because of Spring B being between them? >> > >> >I hope I'm making some sense. >> > >> >Thanks for being patient with someone who will >> probably never do the things >> >you do but is very supportive and interested. >> > >> >Kent >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >--- >> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system >> (http://www.grisoft.com). >> >Version: 6.0.193 / Virus Database: 93 - Release >> Date: 09/19/00 >> > >> >-- >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >> -- >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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