Greg
And 80/20 resolves these problems for all your students? What sort of
profiles are these students doing that they need 100% or 80/20 as =
opposed to
50% from 21m?
=A0
Regards
Steve Bliim

-----Original Message-----
From: gzambeck1 [mailto:gzambeck1@me*.ne*]
Sent: Friday, 8 September 2000 19:18
To: Steven Bliim
Cc: Techdiver (E-mail)
Subject: Re: 80/20 deco


Steve this is a really simple matter, when the student starts to =
complain of
dry throat, discomfort in their lungs, and other side effects I listen. =

I used to deco on 02 at 30 ft all the time and still do.=20
I don't need to do the cost evaluation like others.=20
I paid the 4k for the haskel and I can pump any gas mixture they want.=20
You can do all the math you want and talk about the vaso constricting =
effect
of=A0 the high ppo2 and the effect on the lungs capillary beds.=20
Any statistician would tell you, having a 100 divers is not a test =
group
larger enough to make statement for 16 million other divers.=20
Drug companies have to test 100,000 individuals before FDA will allow =
sales
to the general public.=20

When the diver complains LISTEN.=20


Steven Bliim wrote:=20


It may help me to answer that by knowing in what way you say that 1 in =
8=20
students that you see can't use 100% at 20'? Is it that they can't =
maintain=20
a steady depth at 20' and therefore use 80% at 1.28 to avoid problems =
with=20
oxtox? Maybe they need more help to maintain bouyancy and a steady =
depth?=20
Let me know their problem and maybe I can answer.=20

Trouble is that they miss the benefit of the 1.6 gradient, even if they =
pull

their 80% stop at 30' on 1.52. In any event that has got little to do =
with=20
the point that I was making about needing backgas breaks on either 100% =
or=20
80% if you are doing that sort of deco.=20


Steve Bliim=20


-----Original Message-----=20
From: gzambeck1 [ mailto:gzambeck1@me*.ne*
<mailto:gzambeck1@me*.ne*> ]=20
Sent: Wednesday, 6 September 2000 21:03=20
To: Steven Bliim=20
Subject: Re: 80/20 deco=20


Then Steve why don't you explain to me why 1 out of 8 students I see =
can't=20
use=20
100% O2 at 20 ft.=20
They have to use 80/20.=20
There are a couple of diver I know who use 50% and still can't use 100% =
at=20
20=20
feet.=20


Greg Zambeck=20


Steven Bliim wrote:=20


> Jim has hit one of the nails on the head here. Anyone doing their =
deco on=20
> 80/20 from 30 feet as opposed to 100% from 20 feet is still going to =
be=20
> facing a similar PPO2 for similar times. They are going to need =
backgas=20
> breaks in the same way that those using 100% will need backgas breaks =
-=20
that=20
> is if their deco goes for long enough to need backgas breaks. So much =
for=20
> that argument!=20
>=20
> Have I got it wrong, can anyone tell me why the 80/20 crowd will not =
need=20
> backgas breaks?=20
>=20
> Regards=20
> Steve Bliim=20
> Still waiting for my trip to the NE!=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: Jim Cobb [ mailto:cobber@ci*.co*
<mailto:cobber@ci*.co*> ]=20
> Sent: Saturday, 2 September 2000 1:33=20
> To: Guy Morin=20
> Cc: Tech Diver=20
> Subject: Re: 80/20 deco=20
>=20
> So what you are telling me that you will use whatever it gets you out =
of=20
the=20
> water quicker, damage to your body be damned, and whatever I say or=20
anybody=20
> else says will not make you change your mind.=20
>=20
> I don't know what it takes to get you guys to realize that the idea =
with=20
> deco is to remove nitrogen from you body and you don't do this by=20
breathing=20
> more nitrogen. Nitrogen is what causes the damage.=20
>=20
> I also, IMHO, your thinking is flawed when you presume that using =
80/20=20
> obviates the need for air breaks. Seems to me if you are doing *any* =
mix=20
> where you are spending extensive time at 1.5 PP02 or above you would =
want=20
to=20
> do air breaks to avoid long term damage to your lungs.=20
>=20
> Oh, yeah, the only thing that matters is getting out of the water =
fast, I=20
> forgot.=20
>=20
>=A0=A0 Jim=20
> -------------------------------------------------------------------=20
> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
<http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/> =20
>=20
> From: Guy Morin <xnet@vi*.ca*>=20
> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 09:24:54 -0400=20
> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>=20
> Cc: Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>=20
> Subject: Re: 80/20 deco=20
>=20
> Hi Jim,=20
>=20
> Thank you Jim for confirming what was elucidated=20
> in the post. For myself, you are quite right that I will=20
> be using the theoretical model since it has a good=20
> track record, and consistently estimates what I am=20
> actually diving. Doesn't the WKPP have something=20
> in regard to diving to what is planned? I would have=20
> to guess not, since they never dive what they plan.=20
>=20
> Only a fool would dive following the WKPP method=20
> without knowing all the details of what they practice,=20
> and that certainly isn't available on the net, on this list,=20
> or through word of mouth.=20
>=20
> As far as your practice versus theory, well that part=20
> is going to be ignored the WKPP obviously hasn't=20
> put in the same effort in 36/80 deco as it has in 50/100.=20
>=20
> On another note, remember that it is someone who was=20
> promulgating the WKPP method as being superior that=20
> pointed out the tissue loading from the theoretical model,=20
> not me. Let's keep that little detail in mind, shall we? He=20
> who lives by the sword...=20
>=20
> Finally, I will point out that from a logistical and consumables=20
> perspective, 50/100 deco does make better use of resources.=20
> If I was wanting to get hundreds of divers through the water=20
> to stage a big push, that would be my choice too. The major=20
> costs for a large operation is gas consumables. Using 36/80=20
> deco requires a greater investment in blending, and gas=20
> matching, and wastes a lot of gas. The reasons are obvious,=20
> getting off back gas at around 100' prevents the back gas=20
> from getting drained as would be the case in 50/100 deco.=20
> Using back gas in deco allows it to be drained following more=20
> liberal rules than thirds. In addition, since shallow deco allows=20
> switching to back gas, that makes further use of back gas,=20
> and economizes the O2. Using O2 is simple to blend, and=20
> is insensitive to error. Since a lot of time is spent at the=20
> shallow stops, not having to blend huge volumes of gas,=20
> and the subsequent analysis required, and schedule tweaking,=20
> it makes a lot of sense, especially on that scale.=20
>=20
> So, from an operational standpoint, 50/100 is by far the best=20
> choice. For the diver who doesn't have to worry about consuming=20
> millions of cubic feet per year, and who wants accurate deco=20
> estimation in a field environment that often does not afford=20
> the luxury of a decompression chamber, something more "consistent"=20
> makes a lot of sense.=20
> --=20
> Guy=20
>=20
> --=20
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to =
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.=20
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to =
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.=20
--=20
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. =

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