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Look, you have no track record, no experience, and no information. You take
what IANTD told you as the gospel. I do not have time to waste on you , as :
1) you do not need the info, 2), you would not even get it if I told you.
Also, he WKPP is not here to keep you entertained, informed, or happy. We
have done what you are speculating about for the past 14 years.
Now, go back to your Tom Mouth workbook, and then tell me why Mouth uses
80/20 in the ocean, and 100% when cave diving ( per one of his most recent
post to rebreather list) ???? Start with that as your homework assignment.
By the way, Jarrod's deco list explains his whole deco program and has its
authors on line for guys like you who want to jerk people around. You'll get
nothing from me.
-----Original Message-----
From: guy@fa*.vi*.ne* [mailto:guy@fa*.vi*.ne*]On Behalf Of
Guy Morin
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 9:18 AM
To: Trey
Cc: techdiver@Aquanaut.Com
Subject: Re: 80/20 nonsense
Trey wrote:
guy, et al, before we go into a discussion that is
based on false beliefs , hearsay,.unsubstantiated
methods,
Funny, I think that's my line.
and other theories that hold no water in
real life or have any grip on the total physiology
of decompression at all, why don't we first let you
tell us what 15,000 man dive hours of decompression
Are we talking about the famed U.S. Navy tables?
They have a great track record, don't they? Again,
this is just poor marketing Trey. The U.S. Navy
tables exceed this requirement of yours, yet have poor
reception in diving circles, apparently they have
poor statistics from a DCS incidence rate. Being
extensively tested is one thing. You don't happen
to have a URL for the statistics kept by WKPP, do you?
testing you have done on what were previous
considered "extreme exposures", how you came to use
the gases you use from those results,what if any
decompression diving or experience with others doing
the diving you have done or participated in ( and
that goes for the punk mouth student who brought
this up), and then what military, commercial and
other data and experience you are drawing from ,
what Doppler results you got on these tests ( like
we use )
Congratulations, we've also got a doppler, that was easy.
Fortunately, I don't claim to have such vast experience.
I am concerned with what I practice though, and with
what others have to share. In the end, what I, and most
other divers are left with in the real world are some theoretical
models, and pieces of software that assist us in planning
dives, fexibility really is an asset. Your claim to having
empirical data on decompression really doesn't help
anybody out here. This is just like all those custom tables
used by the oil industry, practically useless to the
decompression diver. "Darn, I don't have the Shell oil
deco schedule, I just have the Chevron."
When the WKPP, or it's proponents, come up here
and put there stuff up for public display, and tell
folks they should be doing this way, or that way,
it doesn't come as a complete surprise that things
are going to be inspected in detail.
The whole issue of breaks has never been dealt with.
It's another oversight in the model. Yes, the model is
one thing, and so on. But ask the decompression diver,
whether or not he is diving as per the WKPP method
and if he is using any empirical data from the WKPP, and
the answer, will likely be: No.
and then lets talk about what WORKS, and
what does not.
Funny, I seem to believe that many possible scenarios
work. Your camp seems to think only one scenario works.
I'm sure you folks are more reasonable than this.
Start there or go on over to the "decompression
list" where they like to yap and banter in theory .
People on here want to know what works in real life,
what will hold up as their dives get bigger and they
get outside of their dive class ,and what makes the
most sense for all the right reasons. If you can't
do that, you can step aside and listen.
Fine, I'll join the list.
But tell us Trey, the major reason for the 50/100 decompression
regime is for logistical reasons, isn't it? Cost, time, effort, and
consistency of results.
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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--
Guy
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D420163023-02092000>Look,=20
you have no track record, no experience, and no information. You =
take what=20
IANTD told you as the gospel. I do not have time to waste on you , as : =
1) =20
you do not need the info, 2), you would not even get it if I told you.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D420163023-02092000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D420163023-02092000>Also,=20
he WKPP is not here to keep you entertained, informed, or happy. We have =
done=20
what you are speculating about for the past 14 years. =
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D420163023-02092000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D420163023-02092000>Now,=20
go back to your Tom Mouth workbook, and then tell me why Mouth uses =
80/20 in the=20
ocean, and 100% when cave diving ( per one of his most =
recent=20
post to rebreather list) ???? Start with that as your homework=20
assignment.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D420163023-02092000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D420163023-02092000>By the=20
way, Jarrod's deco list explains his whole deco program and has its =
authors on=20
line for guys like you who want to jerk people around. You'll get =
nothing from=20
me.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
guy@fa*.vi*.ne*=20
[mailto:guy@fa*.vi*.ne*]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Guy =
Morin<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Saturday, September 02, 2000 9:18 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
Trey<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
techdiver@Aquanaut.Com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 80/20=20
nonsense<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Trey wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">guy, et al, before we go into a discussion =
that is=20
<BR>based on false beliefs , hearsay,.unsubstantiated=20
<BR>methods,</BLOCKQUOTE>Funny, I think that's my line. <BR> =20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">and other theories that hold no water in =
<BR>real=20
life or have any grip on the total physiology <BR>of decompression =
at all,=20
why don't we first let you <BR>tell us what 15,000 man dive hours of =
decompression</BLOCKQUOTE>Are we talking about the famed U.S. Navy =
tables?=20
<BR>They have a great track record, don't they? Again, <BR>this =
is just=20
poor marketing Trey. The U.S. Navy <BR>tables exceed this requirement =
of=20
yours, yet have poor <BR>reception in diving circles, apparently they =
have=20
<BR>poor statistics from a DCS incidence rate. Being <BR>extensively =
tested is=20
one thing. You don't happen <BR>to have a URL for the statistics kept =
by WKPP,=20
do you?=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> <BR>testing you have done on what were =
previous=20
<BR>considered "extreme exposures", how you came to use <BR>the =
gases you=20
use from those results,what if any <BR>decompression diving or =
experience=20
with others doing <BR>the diving you have done or participated in ( =
and=20
<BR>that goes for the punk mouth student who brought <BR>this up), =
and then=20
what military, commercial and <BR>other data and experience =
you are=20
drawing from , <BR>what Doppler results you got on these tests ( =
like <BR>we=20
use )</BLOCKQUOTE>Congratulations, we've also got a doppler, that =
was easy.=20
<BR>Fortunately, I don't claim to have such vast experience. <BR>I am=20
concerned with what I practice though, and with <BR>what others have =
to share.=20
In the end, what I, and most <BR>other divers are left with in the =
real world=20
are some theoretical <BR>models, and pieces of software that assist us =
in=20
planning <BR>dives, fexibility really is an asset. Your claim to =
having=20
<BR>empirical data on decompression really doesn't help <BR>anybody =
out here.=20
This is just like all those custom tables <BR>used by the oil =
industry,=20
practically useless to the <BR>decompression diver. "Darn, I don't =
have the=20
Shell oil <BR>deco schedule, I just have the Chevron."=20
<P>When the WKPP, or it's proponents, come up here <BR>and put there =
stuff up=20
for public display, and tell <BR>folks they should be doing this way, =
or that=20
way, <BR>it doesn't come as a complete surprise that things <BR>are =
going to=20
be inspected in detail.=20
<P>The whole issue of breaks has never been dealt with. <BR>It's =
another=20
oversight in the model. Yes, the model is <BR>one thing, and so on. =
But ask=20
the decompression diver, <BR>whether or not he is diving as per the =
WKPP=20
method <BR>and if he is using any empirical data from the WKPP, and =
<BR>the=20
answer, will likely be: No.=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">and then lets talk about what WORKS, and =
<BR>what=20
does not.</BLOCKQUOTE>Funny, I seem to believe that many possible =
scenarios=20
<BR>work. Your camp seems to think only one scenario works. <BR>I'm =
sure you=20
folks are more reasonable than this.=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> =20
<P>Start there or go on over to the "decompression <BR>list" where =
they like=20
to yap and banter in theory . <BR>People on here want to know what =
works in=20
real life, <BR>what will hold up as their dives get bigger and they =
<BR>get=20
outside of their dive class ,and what makes the <BR>most sense for =
all the=20
right reasons. If you can't <BR>do that, you can step aside and=20
listen.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Fine, I'll join the list.=20
<P>But tell us Trey, the major reason for the 50/100 decompression =
<BR>regime=20
is for logistical reasons, isn't it? Cost, time, effort, and =
<BR>consistency=20
of results.=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> =20
<P>-- <BR>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to=20
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. <BR>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to =
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>--
Guy</PRE> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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--
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