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Geez, you really know how to hurt a guy, Al. I see your point, but I was NOT implying that any of you guys are as bad as the NJ/NW "icons". I do think it is stupid for JT to sympathize with these boneheads however . BTW, I will be the first to admit that Mouth is a moron and that S Florida diving is a joke - especially relative to what it should be given the year round good diving . >No that first line of your was my whole point- on a metal wreck the compass >is less than reliable, so use a reel, especially when its broken up. > >The only thing i resent is that you lump all of us with the idiots because >of location. By your logic, you, Mims and Mount are equal because of your >mailing address; we all know thats not right. Stupidity knows no geographic >boundary. > >have a good one, > >Al Marvelli > > >------Original Message------ >From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) >To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> >Sent: August 14, 2000 5:21:11 PM GMT >Subject: Re: re vb tech reprot > > >Al, are you giving me excuses for not using reels, not >using compasses, and not using any navigation skills >and not planning a dive according to the conditions, >like don't do a huge deco dive if you think you can >not find your way back. If so, you are full of shit. >This is the kind of crap the New Jersey idiots come up >with. > >Jarrod just filmed a Spec Op R/B team dropped of in >Florida Bay at night with no lights swimming into an >EXACT point specified in the drill 1.5 miles away. >They hit it to the penny with no fucking vis. > >Don't waste my time with bullshit - I know better. You >guys keep doing dangerous stupid things which are >nothing but weenie dives turned into clusterfucks by >the way you do them. Ridiculous. > >I can see that the level of resentment is so high that >nothing is going to get accomplished here - leave me >out of the conversation - you just tell each other you >are all "OK" . > >Thank God I do not have to put up with this kind of >thinking in the WKPP, or anywhere else for that >matter. > > >>orientation? to what? all the other large hunks of >metal? >> >>they do have wire dragged shipwrecks in florida >right? >> >>look i agree with what your saying, but compass is as >you state only one of >>the tools, to be used in conjunction with the others. >> >>I was always taught < boy scouts, military, then >scuba> to take a bearing on >>an object in the distance and navigate to it. You >just cant do that in three >>ft vis, like on the Tiger that night, unless all you >intend on doing is >>shooting azmiuths especially when the vis is bad in >the entire water column< >>which does happen> and you cant rise above it. >> >>I call vis three feet when i cant see my knees, six >ft when i cant see past >>my fin tips.more than that i need some other fixed >reference, like an anchor >>chain or i will check my depth when i can see the >bottom, which is what i >>did on the mexicana. >> >>If you have some other methods i would like to hear >them,please dont >>restrain yourself. >> >>regards, >> >>Al Marvelli >> >> >>------Original Message------ >>From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) >>To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>, Capt JT ><captjt@mi*.co*> >>Sent: August 14, 2000 9:57:03 AM GMT >>Subject: Re: re vb tech reprot >> >> >>A compass will give a slightly off reading around a >>big hunk of iron, but not enough to throw off your >>orientation. In underwater navigation, you learn to >>put all the tools together. Leaving the compass out >>of the mix is what a dumb fuck would do, and that is >>the only word to describe most of the wreck divers >>in New York and New Jersey - ignorant , dangerous >>dumb fucks with nothing to offer this sport but >>their pitiful track record , which is well >>documented and has caught the attention of the >>non-diving media in the worst possible way. >> >>I see no reason to emulate these idiots or to defend >>them. JT is really making himself look foolish in >>doing so. I am disgusted by the stupidity of the NE >>wreck divers, and see them as a bad influence and a >>cancer on this sport. >> >>I will not compromise with any of this - it is >>bullshit - you ether do things right or not at all. >>I am sick of the "special situation " crap out of >>wreck divers - it is balony. >> >> >>>Capt JT >>> >>>That was my second dive on the tiger, i did it in >>daytime last year. I can >>>confirm it is a junk pile, unrecognizable scrap >>metal in no identitfiable >>>pattern on the bottom. I know of a few ways to dive >>a site like that, you >>>either dive with a wreck reel< my favorite>, dive >>the wreck so much you can >>>navigate between "known" points <ie non overhead >>progressive "penetration">, >>>dive in a straight line- make a 180 and come right >>back< or make a 190 and get >>>lost>, carry an upline<jersey reel anyone?> or you >>just swim around and come up >>>off the anchor line<hopefully up current of the >>boat>. I did not use my compass >>><which i carried> on the tiger, but i know from >>experience a compass will often >>>give false readings on such a wreck. The capt of >>the boat that night was >>>suggesting we stay within strobe range of the >>anchor, he was so worried people >>>would get lost. >>> >>>and if that was 12 ft vis then those guys must have >>gone about 47,000 ft into >>>those caves. >>> >>>rgds, >>> >>>Al Marvelli >>> >>>Capt JT wrote: >>> >>>digging tool to wreck divers. If I wanted to be an >>asshole to you guys whenyou >>>came up here I would have taken you to wrecks like >>the "Tiger" where >>> >>>> your compass would only have been good on the >>surface and there is no bow, >>>> stern, port, or stbd on that wreck. Just ask Al >>Marvelli, he did a night >>>> dive on it. I would maybe have taken you to the >>"Eureka" where all those >>>> scooters we had would have been turned into >>digging tools and the vis would >>>> have went down to 3-5 ft in those spots we dig. >>And you compare our 40ft >>>> vis to be 12ft vis to you, if we say it is 3-5ft >>just imagine what you >>>> think it would be. We chose the "Mexicana" >>because it fit the needs and >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >> >>____________________________________________________ _ >_____________ >>Get Verizon Online DSL for $39.95 and get 30 days of >free service! >>http://www.bellatlantic.net/promos/p2banet.html > > >_____________________________________________________ _____________ >Get Verizon Online DSL for $39.95 and get 30 days of free service! >http://www.bellatlantic.net/promos/p2banet.html -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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