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No that first line of your was my whole point- on a metal wreck the compass is less than reliable, so use a reel, especially when its broken up. The only thing i resent is that you lump all of us with the idiots because of location. By your logic, you, Mims and Mount are equal because of your mailing address; we all know thats not right. Stupidity knows no geographic boundary. have a good one, Al Marvelli ------Original Message------ From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> Sent: August 14, 2000 5:21:11 PM GMT Subject: Re: re vb tech reprot Al, are you giving me excuses for not using reels, not using compasses, and not using any navigation skills and not planning a dive according to the conditions, like don't do a huge deco dive if you think you can not find your way back. If so, you are full of shit. This is the kind of crap the New Jersey idiots come up with. Jarrod just filmed a Spec Op R/B team dropped of in Florida Bay at night with no lights swimming into an EXACT point specified in the drill 1.5 miles away. They hit it to the penny with no fucking vis. Don't waste my time with bullshit - I know better. You guys keep doing dangerous stupid things which are nothing but weenie dives turned into clusterfucks by the way you do them. Ridiculous. I can see that the level of resentment is so high that nothing is going to get accomplished here - leave me out of the conversation - you just tell each other you are all "OK" . Thank God I do not have to put up with this kind of thinking in the WKPP, or anywhere else for that matter. >orientation? to what? all the other large hunks of metal? > >they do have wire dragged shipwrecks in florida right? > >look i agree with what your saying, but compass is as you state only one of >the tools, to be used in conjunction with the others. > >I was always taught < boy scouts, military, then scuba> to take a bearing on >an object in the distance and navigate to it. You just cant do that in three >ft vis, like on the Tiger that night, unless all you intend on doing is >shooting azmiuths especially when the vis is bad in the entire water column< >which does happen> and you cant rise above it. > >I call vis three feet when i cant see my knees, six ft when i cant see past >my fin tips.more than that i need some other fixed reference, like an anchor >chain or i will check my depth when i can see the bottom, which is what i >did on the mexicana. > >If you have some other methods i would like to hear them,please dont >restrain yourself. > >regards, > >Al Marvelli > > >------Original Message------ >From: trey@ne*.co* (Trey) >To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>, Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> >Sent: August 14, 2000 9:57:03 AM GMT >Subject: Re: re vb tech reprot > > >A compass will give a slightly off reading around a >big hunk of iron, but not enough to throw off your >orientation. In underwater navigation, you learn to >put all the tools together. Leaving the compass out >of the mix is what a dumb fuck would do, and that is >the only word to describe most of the wreck divers >in New York and New Jersey - ignorant , dangerous >dumb fucks with nothing to offer this sport but >their pitiful track record , which is well >documented and has caught the attention of the >non-diving media in the worst possible way. > >I see no reason to emulate these idiots or to defend >them. JT is really making himself look foolish in >doing so. I am disgusted by the stupidity of the NE >wreck divers, and see them as a bad influence and a >cancer on this sport. > >I will not compromise with any of this - it is >bullshit - you ether do things right or not at all. >I am sick of the "special situation " crap out of >wreck divers - it is balony. > > >>Capt JT >> >>That was my second dive on the tiger, i did it in >daytime last year. I can >>confirm it is a junk pile, unrecognizable scrap >metal in no identitfiable >>pattern on the bottom. I know of a few ways to dive >a site like that, you >>either dive with a wreck reel< my favorite>, dive >the wreck so much you can >>navigate between "known" points <ie non overhead >progressive "penetration">, >>dive in a straight line- make a 180 and come right >back< or make a 190 and get >>lost>, carry an upline<jersey reel anyone?> or you >just swim around and come up >>off the anchor line<hopefully up current of the >boat>. I did not use my compass >><which i carried> on the tiger, but i know from >experience a compass will often >>give false readings on such a wreck. The capt of >the boat that night was >>suggesting we stay within strobe range of the >anchor, he was so worried people >>would get lost. >> >>and if that was 12 ft vis then those guys must have >gone about 47,000 ft into >>those caves. >> >>rgds, >> >>Al Marvelli >> >>Capt JT wrote: >> >>digging tool to wreck divers. If I wanted to be an >asshole to you guys whenyou >>came up here I would have taken you to wrecks like >the "Tiger" where >> >>> your compass would only have been good on the >surface and there is no bow, >>> stern, port, or stbd on that wreck. Just ask Al >Marvelli, he did a night >>> dive on it. I would maybe have taken you to the >"Eureka" where all those >>> scooters we had would have been turned into >digging tools and the vis would >>> have went down to 3-5 ft in those spots we dig. >And you compare our 40ft >>> vis to be 12ft vis to you, if we say it is 3-5ft >just imagine what you >>> think it would be. We chose the "Mexicana" >because it fit the needs and >> >> >> >> > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >_____________________________________________________ _____________ >Get Verizon Online DSL for $39.95 and get 30 days of free service! >http://www.bellatlantic.net/promos/p2banet.html __________________________________________________________________ Get Verizon Online DSL for $39.95 and get 30 days of free service! http://www.bellatlantic.net/promos/p2banet.html -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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