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-----Original Message-----
From:	Skip MacElhannon [SMTP:skipmac@co*.co*]
Sent:	Thursday, July 13, 2000 7:09 AM
To:	Chris Ward
Subject:	Re: Oz Tek (Thought I popped this off to the list days ago)


>HeliumDiver hit on one specific point that your reply showed the folks at
>DIR still haven't got yet.  Presentation is everything.

Well gee, Adolf Hitler gave a hell of a presentation but I don't think much 
of the content.  Doesn't content count for at least a little, especially in 
an area where the results of applying that content may be critical (as in 
fatal if you screw up under water)?  I'm an engineer and results are what I 
find important.  If the presentation is nice and pretty then I don't 
object, but pretty presentation doesn't make up for BS content.

They've already got the content, so that's a non-issue.


And how do you think that the training agencies have garnered so much 
criticism in the tech diving community?  Pretty presentation of bad 
information may get by the neophytes, but the real players will call it.

Why should they care what criticism is thrown from the techdiving 
community....they're not techdiving.


Translation: come get the cheapest dive training we can offer from friendly 
instructors who will give a c-card to any one that is still breathing at 
the end of the class.

If that's the kind of certification you received, I'm sorry.  I know in the 
last 3 months we've "failed" 5 students.  We've offered to help them in the 
deficient areas and currently they've all been spending time in the other 
ow classes going on to get help.


Translation: If you plan on doing any real serious diving you better be 
careful or you could easily end up dead.  After doing more hours of deep, 
long, deco diving than anyone else in the entire world the WKPP can offer 
some pretty good information.  Lots of the tech agencies with financial 
interests in selling BS equipment and deep air diving classes don't like 
it, have lost a number of students, and there is a war between the WKPP and 
these guys.

Make that first line "real serious tech diving" and I'd agree.  90% of the 
people you call strokes don't do anykind of techdiving, or serious diving. 
 Sorry, but I don't think a person who dives 2 weeks a year in Hawaii needs 
what DIR is trying to shove down their throats.


>Now, I can see that you also promote exploration and advancing education,
>but when I first started reading the posts on rec.scuba and even here, I
>only saw the above description.  It's taken a while and a few good
>informative posts from some of your members to keep me interested.

Well, who do you want to listen to, the group doing the real dives but have 
some members that are not very polite, or the polite guys that will take 
your money and put your life at risk?

Okay, so know you're saying there there are no reputable dive shops out 
there offering training, just because they're affiliated with an agency??? 
 Get a clue.  I think it's been stated enough times to make it clear, the 
agency doesn't matter, the instructor does.


>Let's be honest...you guys think you're better than everyone else.  Admit
>it..it's okay..we all do occassionally.  It's healthy to have an ego and
>think you're better, or to even know it...  It's when you start trying to
>convince others that you'd better be ready for resistance.  Anyone who
>stands on a platform and cries out "I'm holier than thou" is going to get 
it
>from every angle, and that's what DIR is getting right now.

Name any other group in the world that has equalted the number of long deep 
dives of the WKPP.  Maybe they have a reason to brag.

Well gee.  When you get an area closed off so that no one else can dive it, 
it's pretty easy.



>BTW, my only "incident" with DIR to date:
>
>Monterey DIR demo.  Was going to attend, got into fracas with DIR
>evangelists on rec.scuba and basically decided not to go....Scott(DIR),
>emailed me and said "don't listen to them, come to the demo and check it
>out, we'd love to have you".  This was 2 weeks before the demo, I called 
and
>left 3 voice messages and 2 emails to the shop hosting the event trying to
>get a slot and get on the boat.  Never received a word back.  Scott
>announced about 2-3 days prior to demo that there were spots still 
available
>on boat, I called and left 2 more messages and emailed 3 times......no
>response.  I later found out(according to another person who wanted to 
go),
>that personnel from competitive dive shops were blackballed.  None were
>allowed to attend, at least certain ones.  This doesn't sound any 
different
>from your OzTek fiasco, other than it was inter-shop instead of
>inter-agency.  Regardless, I, as an individual diver, interested in seeing
>your demo was not allowed to hop on your boat, because I work for a
>competitive shop.  I couldn't make it Saturday, because I had to work.
>
>I'm sure you guys have heard the old saying "perception is reality".  If 
you
>get a large group of people saying you're arrogant and assholes.... then
>maybe that's how they're seeing the presentation of your service.  I'm
>talking about your obvious detractors, but the normal guys who's just
>interested in hearing what you have to say on the ng's.
>
>well, that's enough rambling for now. (Steps off soapbox and puts on Flame
>retardant wetsuit)
>

Interesting....no response to the above statements.....

Chris
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