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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFF262.B87F98F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm curious. How far can a vessel owner go to prevent divers from diving on a wreck that is sitting in public waters? Obviously the Lucy and other wrecks are sitting in navigable waterways and the "owners" of the wrecks have no authority to prevent vessels from transiting over or near them. So what exactly does one need permission for? Anchoring on or near the wreck? Approaching within X-meters on scuba gear? Actual penetration of the wreck? If I wanted to just swim down and look at the Lucy without touching it or penetrating, do I need permission to do that? Are such regulations international or do they vary from country to country? Kent Lind Juneau, Alaska -----Original Message----- From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 12:51 PM To: techdiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: Estonia I received this from John Grogan and he said I could post it as he has problems posting.Just more to confirm the character of Bemis. Hi JT, Let me tell you about my interation with Bemis. A group of us (in UK) decided in 97 that we wanted to dive the Lucy, so I phoned Bemis and talked to him about it and gave him a brief rundown on who we were. He told me that there would be a fee but it was just to cover his legal costs etc and assured me that it would not be much. Well, over the course of a few months, it went from a max of $500, then to at least $500, then to at least 500 Pounds, then to 500 Pounds per day. (500 Pounds = $750) At the same time, he kept changing other conditions. First he wanted to see our cert. cards - no problem, then he wanted to see our log books - no problem we told him, but pointed out that some people don't log their dives. Then we wanted fully authenticated copies of all our dive logs and cert. cards. When asked what "fully authenticated copies of our logs" meant, we got no answer. Next, he was unhappy with our choice of dive boat because the skipper had skippered another trip where he suspected the divers removed artifacts. After talking with the skipper at length, he arranged for us to use a different boat for the days we were doing the Lucy (we had 1 week planned with 3 days on the Lucy). In the end we just gave up because everytime we came close to meeting his requirements, new ones surfaced. The guy cannot be trusted and you should never believe anything from him until you've got it on paper. I've twice heard him speak at conferences and at one he kept going on about preserving the wreck and then later talked about using explosives to get to the part of the bow on the seabed! Best, John. -----Original Message----- From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 4:28 AM To: Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*; TechDiver@aquanaut.com Subject: RE: Estonia Gary's book is not the only source of my information, I also have read Robert "You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the water" Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/ Email captjt@mi*.co* ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFF262.B87F98F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>I'm=20 curious.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>How far=20 can a vessel owner go to prevent divers from diving on a wreck that is = sitting=20 in public waters?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>Obviously=20 the Lucy and other wrecks are sitting in navigable waterways and the = "owners" of=20 the wrecks have no authority to prevent vessels from transiting over or = near=20 them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>So what=20 exactly does one need permission for? Anchoring on or near the=20 wreck? Approaching within X-meters on scuba gear? Actual = penetration=20 of the wreck?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>If I=20 wanted to just swim down and look at the Lucy without touching it or=20 penetrating, do I need permission to do that?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>Are such=20 regulations international or do they vary from country to=20 country?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>Kent=20 Lind</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D310503723-20072000>Juneau,=20 Alaska</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Capt JT=20 [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 20, 2000 = 12:51=20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Estonia = <BR><BR></DIV></FONT>I received this from John Grogan and he said I = could post=20 it as he has problems posting.Just more to confirm the character of = Bemis.=20 <BR>Hi JT, <BR>Let me tell you about my interation with Bemis. A group = of us=20 (in UK) <BR>decided in 97 that we wanted to dive the Lucy, so I phoned = Bemis=20 and talked <BR>to him about it and gave him a brief rundown on who we = were. He=20 told me <BR>that there would be a fee but it was just to cover his = legal costs=20 etc and <BR>assured me that it would not be much. Well, over the = course of a=20 few <BR>months, it went from a max of $500, then to at least $500, = then to at=20 least <BR>500 Pounds, then to 500 Pounds per day. (500 Pounds =3D = $750)<BR>At=20 the same time, he kept changing other conditions. First he wanted to = see=20 <BR>our cert. cards - no problem, then he wanted to see our log books = - no=20 <BR>problem we told him, but pointed out that some people don't log = their=20 dives. <BR>Then we wanted fully authenticated copies of all our dive = logs and=20 cert. <BR>cards. When asked what "fully authenticated copies of our = logs"=20 meant, we <BR>got no answer.<BR>Next, he was unhappy with our choice = of dive=20 boat because the skipper had <BR>skippered another trip where he = suspected the=20 divers removed artifacts. <BR>After talking with the skipper at = length, he=20 arranged for us to use a <BR>different boat for the days we were doing = the=20 Lucy (we had 1 week planned <BR>with 3 days on the Lucy).<BR>In the = end we=20 just gave up because everytime we came close to meeting his = <BR>requirements,=20 new ones surfaced. The guy cannot be trusted and you should <BR>never = believe=20 anything from him until you've got it on paper.<BR>I've twice heard = him speak=20 at conferences and at one he kept going on about <BR>preserving the = wreck and=20 then later talked about using explosives to get to <BR>the part of the = bow on=20 the seabed!<BR><BR>Best, <BR>John.<BR>-----Original Message----- = <BR>From:=20 Capt JT [<A href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*" = eudora=3D"autourl"><FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff><U>mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</A></FONT></U>] = <BR>Sent:=20 Thursday, July 20, 2000 4:28 AM <BR>To: Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*;=20 TechDiver@aquanaut.com <BR>Subject: RE: Estonia<BR><BR>Gary's book is = not the=20 only source of my information, I also have read <BR>Robert = <BR><BR>"You can't=20 learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in the=20 water"<BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff><U>Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving = along the=20 East Coast & more<BR> Web Site <A=20 href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20 = eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A><BR>Email = =20 captjt@mi*.co*<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></U></BODY></HTML > ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BFF262.B87F98F0-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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