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Mailing List: techdiver

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  Hey John "Down Under a Rock",

     Talking about task loading, why would you have to take your gear off if
you want to keep task loading to a minimum.  I think your dreaming this
stuff up.  Weights around your waist pull down as the rest of your gear
lifts up.  This can equals to back fatigue.  You would also have a belt
under a belt and the chance of uncliping the weights rather than the harness
are great.
     I relize you will not be negitive or neutral in your suit but I am able
to minimize the bouyancy quit well in my suit.  Give Billy Williams a call,
maybe he can help you out with this.  Although he may ask you to loose a
couple of kilo's around you waist I'm sure he can give you some valuable
tips.

        who raa
       John Walker
       over you

----- Original Message -----
From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
To: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*>
Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 11:07 PM
Subject: Fw: Weights


>
> "Gi Day" John
>
>  You don't bloody get it do you dick brain. Why task load a situation just
>  because you didn't bother to wear a couple of kilos around "your fat
gut".
>  Any body can do what you said in a normal situation but WHEN the shit
hits
>  the fan and STRESS takes over wouldn't it be better to have control over
>  your buoyancy and attend to the problem and not have to worry about the
>  buoyancy bit.
>  FAT must be a new way of diving as in DIR WIR and of course we now have
KIS
>  "keep it simple".
>  Apart from that I don't care how fat or skinny you are there is no way
you
>  are negative or even neutral in any kind of suit even with all the air
and
>  methane extracted.
>
>  Hoo Roo
>  Johnny Mack
>  Down Under.
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*>
> > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: Weights
> >
> >
> > >    John, it sounds as if you either need to loose a few pounds of FAT
or
> > > quit putting so much gas in your suit.  When you describe removing
your
> > > equipment underwater, is it nessesary to let go of it?  I have removed
> my
> > > equipment underwater many times and even in a drysuit if you were to
> hang
> > > onto the equipment (your gas supply) the bouyancy thing is a minor
> issue.
> > > Letting go of your gas supply doesn't make any sense to me although I
> have
> > > switched from scuba to abilical in order to penetrate areas of wrecks
> > > without a hitch.
> > >
> > >        JW
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Gi Day" again  Steve.
> > > >
> > > > I think you understand now where I am coming from with weighting.
> > > >
> > > > I guess there are a number of different scenarios that could mean
> having
> > > to
> > > > get out of your gear to rectify a problem, and listing them would
keep
> > > this
> > > > thread going forever.
> > > >
> > > > Getting caught in a restriction is unlikely to be one of them as you
> > > > "should" get out of your gear to negotiate the restriction if it is
> that
> > > > small. Then you won't get trapped. Not only you won't get trapped
you
> > will
> > > > be in control of the situation. You will have even better control if
> you
> > > are
> > > > weighted correctly.
> > > >
> > > > Hoo Roo
> > > > Johnny Mack
> > > > Down Under.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 1:30 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > >
> > > > > I honestly can't think of a situation that would require you to
take
> > off
> > > > all
> > > > > your gear underwater besides getting stuck in a restriction so
small
> > > that
> > > > > you shouldn't have been diving it anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that the chances of getting into a situation needing full
> gear
> > > > > removal is so slight that it doesn't warrant a weight belt.
> > > > >
> > > > > Weight belts do have their place in diving, I still use mine quite
> > > > > frequently depending on the setup I'm using, I just never dive it
> with
> > > > more
> > > > > than 6 lbs now.  Even getting rid of those 6 lbs makes a huge
> > difference
> > > > for
> > > > > comfort.
> > > > >
> > > > > So John, what likely scenarios require you to take all your gear
> off?
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > > > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> > > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:05 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > "Gi Day" Steve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steve you said it in your last comment "WEAR A BALANCED RIG".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If and WHEN the shit hits the fan and the diver has no choice
but
> to
> > > get
> > > > > out
> > > > > > of his gear.
> > > > > > If the diver independent of his rig is balanced, the task
loading
> in
> > a
> > > > > > highly stressed situation will be significantly reduced.
> > > > > > If you need to add weight to your rig to achieve this balance
then
> > do
> > > > so,
> > > > > a
> > > > > > P/V weight in this case would be practical.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The guys that don't take their gear off under water if its the
> only
> > > way
> > > > to
> > > > > > fix the problem DIE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also hate wearing a weight belt, however it doesn't have to be
> too
> > > > heavy
> > > > > > as it is only adjusting the buoyancy of the diver not the Diver
> and
> > > the
> > > > > rig.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hoo Roo
> > > > > > Johnny Mack
> > > > > > Down Under.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> > > > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>; Techdiver Mailing
> List
> > > > > > <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:48 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since when does a P/V weight constitute weights "all over the
> > place
> > > > "???
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is a weight belt more effective?  Why are you taking your
> gear
> > > off
> > > > > > > underwater?
> > > > > > > Think about this... Pressed Steel 104s + Drysuit + SS
backplate
> =
> > no
> > > > > > > additional weight!
> > > > > > > What do those guys do when they take off their gear
underwater?
> > > They
> > > > > > don't.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Comfort-wise, I hate weight belts with a passion.  Getting rid
> of
> > it
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > provide more comfort, less wear on your exposure suit, and
> better
> > > > > airflow
> > > > > > > through your drysuit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Getting up off the bottom is easy... dive a balanced rig.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > steve
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > > > > > To: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:30 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I read a lot of crap in the many posts that have been
> presented
> > > over
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > last few days regarding weighting. Most of the suggestions
> have
> > > been
> > > > > > down
> > > > > > > > right bloody dangerous, stupid, and idiotic. Hey guys what
> > > happened
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > keeping it simple. We should weight ourselves with out tanks
> > > harness
> > > > > etc
> > > > > > > > attached, just negative. if we are still negative with the
> tanks
> > > and
> > > > > > > harness
> > > > > > > > etc on then we are correctly weighted. Using the traditional
> > > weight
> > > > > belt
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > the most effective way of doing this. Have a bloody good
think
> > > about
> > > > > why
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > should be weighted this way before you make any comments.
The
> > guys
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to wear tank weights etc all over the place have a think
about
> > > > > buoyancy
> > > > > > > > control if you have to take your gear off in water at depth.
> If
> > > and
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > shit hits the fan and you have to do this with weights all
> over
> > > your
> > > > > > gear
> > > > > > > > "good luck".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hoo Roo
> > > > > > > > Johnny Mack
> > > > > > > > Down Under
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*>
> > > > > > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:11 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    Hell Cobber they give me a sore back.  I'd bet Mike
Black
> > > (you
> > > > > > know,
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > guy that doesn't dive) would consider this a Type 2 DCS
hit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     Dr. John Walker
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*>
> > > > > > > > > To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>; Paul Braunbehrens
> > > > > > > > > <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> > > > > > > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:02 AM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Weight belt for wetsuits. Weight belt fucks up the
airflow
> > in
> > > > your
> > > > > > > > drysuit
> > > > > > > > > > and is a failure point. I hate weight belts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    Jim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > >  Learn About Trimix at
http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>
> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:24:40 -0400
> > > > > > > > > > > To: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> > > > > > > > > > > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I dont mean to flame Paul personally but I have to ask
> > some
> > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Why is the weight belt not ideal? its cheap, easy to
> > learn,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > found
> > > > > > > > > > > everywhere.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The belt gives you a built in failure indicator< if
you
> > are
> > > > > paying
> > > > > > > > > attnetion
> > > > > > > > > > > you can feel it slip, and thats easy to correct on
your
> > own>
> > > > and
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > its
> > > > > > > > > > > under you crotch stap has a built in anti ditch
safety.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > and also
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > what is the facination with non ditchable weight?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > especially on a rig that is limited to no stop diving
by
> > > > > > > definition??
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can understand its significance on a deco dive, but
> you
> > > all
> > > > do
> > > > > > > > realize
> > > > > > > > > > > that if your worst fears come true and you undergo a
> > buoyant
> > > > > > ascent
> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > are merely performing skills practice?? That evey
agency
> > has
> > > > > blow
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > its last resort for ndl diving?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > have any of you removed your weights during a dive?
what
> > was
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > result?
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > had my belt off three times in front of the class i
was
> > > > helping
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > tonite,
> > > > > > > > > > > no problem with an al 80 with an al plate and a 1/4
suit
> > in
> > > > 12
> > > > > ft
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > water,
> > > > > > > > > > > i had plenty of time to dump the bc and remain with my
> > > weight
> > > > > belt
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > a little effort. Are we all just not paying attention?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > worried about buckle failure? wear two.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We are not even going to get into the pony bottle, but
> fyi
> > > my
> > > > > > > > > understanding
> > > > > > > > > > > of hogarthian means ultra minimal as in no reserve
gas,
> > even
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > > overhead.
> > > > > > > > > > > and of course the bottle is unnecessary for anything,
> you
> > > can
> > > > > > either
> > > > > > > > > blow
> > > > > > > > > > > and go or you cant and if you cant you need a real
> > redundant
> > > > > > system,
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > 13
> > > > > > > > > > > freaking cu ft. This w/e i was forced to dive off the
> bow
> > > b/c
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > customers
> > > > > > > > > > > used up all the rack space with their pony bottles
> filled
> > > with
> > > > > > > nitrox
> > > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > hot for the bottom< typical, they have all been hosed
> and
> > > > regard
> > > > > > dir
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > internet bs>and then i had to endure the shop owners
> > > bitching
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > doubles being too much gear for the dives< which they
> > were,
> > > > but
> > > > > i
> > > > > > > > needed
> > > > > > > > > > > them empty and gas costs money so i aint freaking
> wasting
> > > > it>so
> > > > > i
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > ready
> > > > > > > > > > > for all comers on this pony bullshit.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You dont need a pony bottle unless you are solo diving
> > > without
> > > > a
> > > > > > > plan.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Think it through people.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Al Marvelli
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS if those two quarry guys dont send me snail
addresses
> > ill
> > > > > never
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > > > > to mail them schedules and since i lost my inbox i
dont
> > > > > havetheir
> > > > > > e
> > > > > > > > > > > addresses, so get back to me fellas.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> OK, I went through tons of archives last night,
trying
> to
> > > get
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >> bottom of this.  First, let me tell you my setup.
I'm
> > > diving
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > >> backplate and wings, with a drysuit, and (for now) a
> > single
> > > > > tank
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > >> a pony bottle.  Leaving enough air in my suit so I
can
> > > still
> > > > > move
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > >> do a safety stop at the end of a dive, I need 17
pounds
> > on
> > > my
> > > > > > belt
> > > > > > > (I
> > > > > > > > > > >> dive in cold water).
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Right now this weight is on my weight belt, which is
ok
> > but
> > > > not
> > > > > > > > ideal.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Perusing the archives, it seems the consensus is to
> make
> > a
> > > V
> > > > > > weight
> > > > > > > > > > >> for at least some of this.  Let's say it will weigh
> about
> > 9
> > > > > > Pounds.
> > > > > > > > > > >> This still leaves 8 pounds.  I could then either
leave
> > that
> > > > on
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > >> weight belt, or I could put it in the Halcyon weight
> > > pouches.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > >> assume that when I go to doubles I won't need most of
> it
> > > > > anymore?
> > > > > > > > > > >> Also, DiveRite sells a "trim weight" that will fit
> > between
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bolts
> > > > > > > > > > >> on the backplate.  I was thinking of this as an
option.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Also, I read a lot of posts saying the canister light
> is
> > 6
> > > > > pounds
> > > > > > > > > > >> negative (or thereabouts).  Mine is 1.5 pounds
> negative,
> > > > which
> > > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > > > >> I have to account for that weight somewhere.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> One post I read which made a lot of sense, said that
> you
> > > > should
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > >> about 5 or 6 pounds of ditchable weight (if any).
When
> > you
> > > > > ditch
> > > > > > > > > > >> your weight you don't want to become so positive as
to
> > end
> > > up
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > >> lunar orbit.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> I would like to get as close to hogarthian as
possible
> > > before
> > > > > > > moving
> > > > > > > > > > >> to doubles, so any help is appreciated.  I'm even
> moving
> > my
> > > > > > > canister
> > > > > > > > > > >> back on my harness (I had it upside down and attached
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >> backplate, but I find that it has a tendency to sit
on
> > the
> > > > > wiring
> > > > > > > > > > >> connection...not good).
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > > > > > >> Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*
> > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio
> on
> > > the
> > > > > mac
> > > > > > > > > > >> --
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