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John, it sounds as if you either need to loose a few pounds of FAT or
quit putting so much gas in your suit. When you describe removing your
equipment underwater, is it nessesary to let go of it? I have removed my
equipment underwater many times and even in a drysuit if you were to hang
onto the equipment (your gas supply) the bouyancy thing is a minor issue.
Letting go of your gas supply doesn't make any sense to me although I have
switched from scuba to abilical in order to penetrate areas of wrecks
without a hitch.
JW
----- Original Message -----
From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: Weights
> "Gi Day" again Steve.
>
> I think you understand now where I am coming from with weighting.
>
> I guess there are a number of different scenarios that could mean having
to
> get out of your gear to rectify a problem, and listing them would keep
this
> thread going forever.
>
> Getting caught in a restriction is unlikely to be one of them as you
> "should" get out of your gear to negotiate the restriction if it is that
> small. Then you won't get trapped. Not only you won't get trapped you will
> be in control of the situation. You will have even better control if you
are
> weighted correctly.
>
> Hoo Roo
> Johnny Mack
> Down Under.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Weights
>
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I honestly can't think of a situation that would require you to take off
> all
> > your gear underwater besides getting stuck in a restriction so small
that
> > you shouldn't have been diving it anyway.
> >
> > I think that the chances of getting into a situation needing full gear
> > removal is so slight that it doesn't warrant a weight belt.
> >
> > Weight belts do have their place in diving, I still use mine quite
> > frequently depending on the setup I'm using, I just never dive it with
> more
> > than 6 lbs now. Even getting rid of those 6 lbs makes a huge difference
> for
> > comfort.
> >
> > So John, what likely scenarios require you to take all your gear off?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: Weights
> >
> >
> > > "Gi Day" Steve.
> > >
> > > Steve you said it in your last comment "WEAR A BALANCED RIG".
> > >
> > > If and WHEN the shit hits the fan and the diver has no choice but to
get
> > out
> > > of his gear.
> > > If the diver independent of his rig is balanced, the task loading in a
> > > highly stressed situation will be significantly reduced.
> > > If you need to add weight to your rig to achieve this balance then do
> so,
> > a
> > > P/V weight in this case would be practical.
> > >
> > > The guys that don't take their gear off under water if its the only
way
> to
> > > fix the problem DIE.
> > >
> > > I also hate wearing a weight belt, however it doesn't have to be too
> heavy
> > > as it is only adjusting the buoyancy of the diver not the Diver and
the
> > rig.
> > >
> > > Hoo Roo
> > > Johnny Mack
> > > Down Under.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>
> > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>; Techdiver Mailing List
> > > <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > >
> > >
> > > > Since when does a P/V weight constitute weights "all over the place
> "???
> > > >
> > > > Why is a weight belt more effective? Why are you taking your gear
off
> > > > underwater?
> > > > Think about this... Pressed Steel 104s + Drysuit + SS backplate = no
> > > > additional weight!
> > > > What do those guys do when they take off their gear underwater?
They
> > > don't.
> > > >
> > > > Comfort-wise, I hate weight belts with a passion. Getting rid of it
> > will
> > > > provide more comfort, less wear on your exposure suit, and better
> > airflow
> > > > through your drysuit.
> > > >
> > > > Getting up off the bottom is easy... dive a balanced rig.
> > > >
> > > > steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>
> > > > To: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:30 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I read a lot of crap in the many posts that have been presented
over
> > the
> > > > > last few days regarding weighting. Most of the suggestions have
been
> > > down
> > > > > right bloody dangerous, stupid, and idiotic. Hey guys what
happened
> to
> > > > > keeping it simple. We should weight ourselves with out tanks
harness
> > etc
> > > > > attached, just negative. if we are still negative with the tanks
and
> > > > harness
> > > > > etc on then we are correctly weighted. Using the traditional
weight
> > belt
> > > > is
> > > > > the most effective way of doing this. Have a bloody good think
about
> > why
> > > > you
> > > > > should be weighted this way before you make any comments. The guys
> > that
> > > > want
> > > > > to wear tank weights etc all over the place have a think about
> > buoyancy
> > > > > control if you have to take your gear off in water at depth. If
and
> > when
> > > > the
> > > > > shit hits the fan and you have to do this with weights all over
your
> > > gear
> > > > > "good luck".
> > > > >
> > > > > Hoo Roo
> > > > > Johnny Mack
> > > > > Down Under
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*>
> > > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:11 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hell Cobber they give me a sore back. I'd bet Mike Black
(you
> > > know,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > guy that doesn't dive) would consider this a Type 2 DCS hit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. John Walker
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*>
> > > > > > To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>; Paul Braunbehrens
> > > > > > <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> > > > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:02 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Weight belt for wetsuits. Weight belt fucks up the airflow in
> your
> > > > > drysuit
> > > > > > > and is a failure point. I hate weight belts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>
> > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:24:40 -0400
> > > > > > > > To: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*>
> > > > > > > > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I dont mean to flame Paul personally but I have to ask some
> > simple
> > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why is the weight belt not ideal? its cheap, easy to learn,
> and
> > > > found
> > > > > > > > everywhere.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The belt gives you a built in failure indicator< if you are
> > paying
> > > > > > attnetion
> > > > > > > > you can feel it slip, and thats easy to correct on your own>
> and
> > > if
> > > > > its
> > > > > > > > under you crotch stap has a built in anti ditch safety.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > and also
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > what is the facination with non ditchable weight?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > especially on a rig that is limited to no stop diving by
> > > > definition??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can understand its significance on a deco dive, but you
all
> do
> > > > > realize
> > > > > > > > that if your worst fears come true and you undergo a buoyant
> > > ascent
> > > > ,
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > are merely performing skills practice?? That evey agency has
> > blow
> > > > and
> > > > > go
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > its last resort for ndl diving?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > have any of you removed your weights during a dive? what was
> the
> > > > > result?
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > had my belt off three times in front of the class i was
> helping
> > > with
> > > > > > tonite,
> > > > > > > > no problem with an al 80 with an al plate and a 1/4 suit in
> 12
> > ft
> > > > of
> > > > > > water,
> > > > > > > > i had plenty of time to dump the bc and remain with my
weight
> > belt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > a little effort. Are we all just not paying attention?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > worried about buckle failure? wear two.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We are not even going to get into the pony bottle, but fyi
my
> > > > > > understanding
> > > > > > > > of hogarthian means ultra minimal as in no reserve gas, even
> in
> > > > > > overhead.
> > > > > > > > and of course the bottle is unnecessary for anything, you
can
> > > either
> > > > > > blow
> > > > > > > > and go or you cant and if you cant you need a real redundant
> > > system,
> > > > > not
> > > > > > 13
> > > > > > > > freaking cu ft. This w/e i was forced to dive off the bow
b/c
> > the
> > > > > > customers
> > > > > > > > used up all the rack space with their pony bottles filled
with
> > > > nitrox
> > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > hot for the bottom< typical, they have all been hosed and
> regard
> > > dir
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > internet bs>and then i had to endure the shop owners
bitching
> > > about
> > > > my
> > > > > > > > doubles being too much gear for the dives< which they were,
> but
> > i
> > > > > needed
> > > > > > > > them empty and gas costs money so i aint freaking wasting
> it>so
> > i
> > > am
> > > > > > ready
> > > > > > > > for all comers on this pony bullshit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You dont need a pony bottle unless you are solo diving
without
> a
> > > > plan.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Think it through people.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Al Marvelli
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS if those two quarry guys dont send me snail addresses ill
> > never
> > > > be
> > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > to mail them schedules and since i lost my inbox i dont
> > havetheir
> > > e
> > > > > > > > addresses, so get back to me fellas.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Paul Braunbehrens wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> OK, I went through tons of archives last night, trying to
get
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> bottom of this. First, let me tell you my setup. I'm
diving
> a
> > > > > > > >> backplate and wings, with a drysuit, and (for now) a single
> > tank
> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> a pony bottle. Leaving enough air in my suit so I can
still
> > move
> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> do a safety stop at the end of a dive, I need 17 pounds on
my
> > > belt
> > > > (I
> > > > > > > >> dive in cold water).
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Right now this weight is on my weight belt, which is ok but
> not
> > > > > ideal.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Perusing the archives, it seems the consensus is to make a
V
> > > weight
> > > > > > > >> for at least some of this. Let's say it will weigh about 9
> > > Pounds.
> > > > > > > >> This still leaves 8 pounds. I could then either leave that
> on
> > my
> > > > > > > >> weight belt, or I could put it in the Halcyon weight
pouches.
> > I
> > > > > > > >> assume that when I go to doubles I won't need most of it
> > anymore?
> > > > > > > >> Also, DiveRite sells a "trim weight" that will fit between
> the
> > > > bolts
> > > > > > > >> on the backplate. I was thinking of this as an option.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Also, I read a lot of posts saying the canister light is 6
> > pounds
> > > > > > > >> negative (or thereabouts). Mine is 1.5 pounds negative,
> which
> > > > means
> > > > > > > >> I have to account for that weight somewhere.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> One post I read which made a lot of sense, said that you
> should
> > > > have
> > > > > > > >> about 5 or 6 pounds of ditchable weight (if any). When you
> > ditch
> > > > > > > >> your weight you don't want to become so positive as to end
up
> > in
> > > > > > > >> lunar orbit.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I would like to get as close to hogarthian as possible
before
> > > > moving
> > > > > > > >> to doubles, so any help is appreciated. I'm even moving my
> > > > canister
> > > > > > > >> back on my harness (I had it upside down and attached to
the
> > > > > > > >> backplate, but I find that it has a tendency to sit on the
> > wiring
> > > > > > > >> connection...not good).
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > > >> Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co*
> > > > > > > >> http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio on
the
> > mac
> > > > > > > >> --
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