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"Gi Day" John You don't bloody get it do you dick brain. Why task load a situation just because you didn't bother to wear a couple of kilos around "your fat gut". Any body can do what you said in a normal situation but WHEN the shit hits the fan and STRESS takes over wouldn't it be better to have control over your buoyancy and attend to the problem and not have to worry about the buoyancy bit. FAT must be a new way of diving as in DIR WIR and of course we now have KIS "keep it simple". Apart from that I don't care how fat or skinny you are there is no way you are negative or even neutral in any kind of suit even with all the air and methane extracted. Hoo Roo Johnny Mack Down Under. ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:59 PM > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > John, it sounds as if you either need to loose a few pounds of FAT or > > quit putting so much gas in your suit. When you describe removing your > > equipment underwater, is it nessesary to let go of it? I have removed my > > equipment underwater many times and even in a drysuit if you were to hang > > onto the equipment (your gas supply) the bouyancy thing is a minor issue. > > Letting go of your gas supply doesn't make any sense to me although I have > > switched from scuba to abilical in order to penetrate areas of wrecks > > without a hitch. > > > > JW > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 7:09 PM > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > "Gi Day" again Steve. > > > > > > I think you understand now where I am coming from with weighting. > > > > > > I guess there are a number of different scenarios that could mean having > > to > > > get out of your gear to rectify a problem, and listing them would keep > > this > > > thread going forever. > > > > > > Getting caught in a restriction is unlikely to be one of them as you > > > "should" get out of your gear to negotiate the restriction if it is that > > > small. Then you won't get trapped. Not only you won't get trapped you > will > > > be in control of the situation. You will have even better control if you > > are > > > weighted correctly. > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > Johnny Mack > > > Down Under. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 1:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > > > I honestly can't think of a situation that would require you to take > off > > > all > > > > your gear underwater besides getting stuck in a restriction so small > > that > > > > you shouldn't have been diving it anyway. > > > > > > > > I think that the chances of getting into a situation needing full gear > > > > removal is so slight that it doesn't warrant a weight belt. > > > > > > > > Weight belts do have their place in diving, I still use mine quite > > > > frequently depending on the setup I'm using, I just never dive it with > > > more > > > > than 6 lbs now. Even getting rid of those 6 lbs makes a huge > difference > > > for > > > > comfort. > > > > > > > > So John, what likely scenarios require you to take all your gear off? > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > > To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > > Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:05 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Gi Day" Steve. > > > > > > > > > > Steve you said it in your last comment "WEAR A BALANCED RIG". > > > > > > > > > > If and WHEN the shit hits the fan and the diver has no choice but to > > get > > > > out > > > > > of his gear. > > > > > If the diver independent of his rig is balanced, the task loading in > a > > > > > highly stressed situation will be significantly reduced. > > > > > If you need to add weight to your rig to achieve this balance then > do > > > so, > > > > a > > > > > P/V weight in this case would be practical. > > > > > > > > > > The guys that don't take their gear off under water if its the only > > way > > > to > > > > > fix the problem DIE. > > > > > > > > > > I also hate wearing a weight belt, however it doesn't have to be too > > > heavy > > > > > as it is only adjusting the buoyancy of the diver not the Diver and > > the > > > > rig. > > > > > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > > > Johnny Mack > > > > > Down Under. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > > > > To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>; Techdiver Mailing List > > > > > <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:48 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since when does a P/V weight constitute weights "all over the > place > > > "??? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is a weight belt more effective? Why are you taking your gear > > off > > > > > > underwater? > > > > > > Think about this... Pressed Steel 104s + Drysuit + SS backplate = > no > > > > > > additional weight! > > > > > > What do those guys do when they take off their gear underwater? > > They > > > > > don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > Comfort-wise, I hate weight belts with a passion. Getting rid of > it > > > > will > > > > > > provide more comfort, less wear on your exposure suit, and better > > > > airflow > > > > > > through your drysuit. > > > > > > > > > > > > Getting up off the bottom is easy... dive a balanced rig. > > > > > > > > > > > > steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > > > > To: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:30 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read a lot of crap in the many posts that have been presented > > over > > > > the > > > > > > > last few days regarding weighting. Most of the suggestions have > > been > > > > > down > > > > > > > right bloody dangerous, stupid, and idiotic. Hey guys what > > happened > > > to > > > > > > > keeping it simple. We should weight ourselves with out tanks > > harness > > > > etc > > > > > > > attached, just negative. if we are still negative with the tanks > > and > > > > > > harness > > > > > > > etc on then we are correctly weighted. Using the traditional > > weight > > > > belt > > > > > > is > > > > > > > the most effective way of doing this. Have a bloody good think > > about > > > > why > > > > > > you > > > > > > > should be weighted this way before you make any comments. The > guys > > > > that > > > > > > want > > > > > > > to wear tank weights etc all over the place have a think about > > > > buoyancy > > > > > > > control if you have to take your gear off in water at depth. If > > and > > > > when > > > > > > the > > > > > > > shit hits the fan and you have to do this with weights all over > > your > > > > > gear > > > > > > > "good luck". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > > > > > Johnny Mack > > > > > > > Down Under > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> > > > > > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:11 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell Cobber they give me a sore back. I'd bet Mike Black > > (you > > > > > know, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > guy that doesn't dive) would consider this a Type 2 DCS hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. John Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*> > > > > > > > > To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>; Paul Braunbehrens > > > > > > > > <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > > > > > > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:02 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight belt for wetsuits. Weight belt fucks up the airflow > in > > > your > > > > > > > drysuit > > > > > > > > > and is a failure point. I hate weight belts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:24:40 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > To: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > > > > > > > > > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont mean to flame Paul personally but I have to ask > some > > > > simple > > > > > > > > questions > > > > > > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is the weight belt not ideal? its cheap, easy to > learn, > > > and > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The belt gives you a built in failure indicator< if you > are > > > > paying > > > > > > > > attnetion > > > > > > > > > > you can feel it slip, and thats easy to correct on your > own> > > > and > > > > > if > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > under you crotch stap has a built in anti ditch safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what is the facination with non ditchable weight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > especially on a rig that is limited to no stop diving by > > > > > > definition?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can understand its significance on a deco dive, but you > > all > > > do > > > > > > > realize > > > > > > > > > > that if your worst fears come true and you undergo a > buoyant > > > > > ascent > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > are merely performing skills practice?? That evey agency > has > > > > blow > > > > > > and > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > its last resort for ndl diving? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have any of you removed your weights during a dive? what > was > > > the > > > > > > > result? > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > had my belt off three times in front of the class i was > > > helping > > > > > with > > > > > > > > tonite, > > > > > > > > > > no problem with an al 80 with an al plate and a 1/4 suit > in > > > 12 > > > > ft > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > water, > > > > > > > > > > i had plenty of time to dump the bc and remain with my > > weight > > > > belt > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > a little effort. Are we all just not paying attention? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worried about buckle failure? wear two. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not even going to get into the pony bottle, but fyi > > my > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > > of hogarthian means ultra minimal as in no reserve gas, > even > > > in > > > > > > > > overhead. > > > > > > > > > > and of course the bottle is unnecessary for anything, you > > can > > > > > either > > > > > > > > blow > > > > > > > > > > and go or you cant and if you cant you need a real > redundant > > > > > system, > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > 13 > > > > > > > > > > freaking cu ft. This w/e i was forced to dive off the bow > > b/c > > > > the > > > > > > > > customers > > > > > > > > > > used up all the rack space with their pony bottles filled > > with > > > > > > nitrox > > > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > > > hot for the bottom< typical, they have all been hosed and > > > regard > > > > > dir > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > internet bs>and then i had to endure the shop owners > > bitching > > > > > about > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > doubles being too much gear for the dives< which they > were, > > > but > > > > i > > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > > > > them empty and gas costs money so i aint freaking wasting > > > it>so > > > > i > > > > > am > > > > > > > > ready > > > > > > > > > > for all comers on this pony bullshit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont need a pony bottle unless you are solo diving > > without > > > a > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think it through people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al Marvelli > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS if those two quarry guys dont send me snail addresses > ill > > > > never > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > able > > > > > > > > > > to mail them schedules and since i lost my inbox i dont > > > > havetheir > > > > > e > > > > > > > > > > addresses, so get back to me fellas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Braunbehrens wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> OK, I went through tons of archives last night, trying to > > get > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> bottom of this. First, let me tell you my setup. I'm > > diving > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> backplate and wings, with a drysuit, and (for now) a > single > > > > tank > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> a pony bottle. Leaving enough air in my suit so I can > > still > > > > move > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> do a safety stop at the end of a dive, I need 17 pounds > on > > my > > > > > belt > > > > > > (I > > > > > > > > > >> dive in cold water). > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Right now this weight is on my weight belt, which is ok > but > > > not > > > > > > > ideal. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Perusing the archives, it seems the consensus is to make > a > > V > > > > > weight > > > > > > > > > >> for at least some of this. Let's say it will weigh about > 9 > > > > > Pounds. > > > > > > > > > >> This still leaves 8 pounds. I could then either leave > that > > > on > > > > my > > > > > > > > > >> weight belt, or I could put it in the Halcyon weight > > pouches. > > > > I > > > > > > > > > >> assume that when I go to doubles I won't need most of it > > > > anymore? > > > > > > > > > >> Also, DiveRite sells a "trim weight" that will fit > between > > > the > > > > > > bolts > > > > > > > > > >> on the backplate. I was thinking of this as an option. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Also, I read a lot of posts saying the canister light is > 6 > > > > pounds > > > > > > > > > >> negative (or thereabouts). Mine is 1.5 pounds negative, > > > which > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > >> I have to account for that weight somewhere. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> One post I read which made a lot of sense, said that you > > > should > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >> about 5 or 6 pounds of ditchable weight (if any). When > you > > > > ditch > > > > > > > > > >> your weight you don't want to become so positive as to > end > > up > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >> lunar orbit. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> I would like to get as close to hogarthian as possible > > before > > > > > > moving > > > > > > > > > >> to doubles, so any help is appreciated. I'm even moving > my > > > > > > canister > > > > > > > > > >> back on my harness (I had it upside down and attached to > > the > > > > > > > > > >> backplate, but I find that it has a tendency to sit on > the > > > > wiring > > > > > > > > > >> connection...not good). > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > >> Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* > > > > > > > > > >> http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio on > > the > > > > mac > > > > > > > > > >> -- > > > > > > > > > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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