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That's why the stroke BCs have all the pockets in them. You gotta have a spot for the chicken bones, rabbit's foot, and tarot cards that are required to dive that stuff. Don -----Original Message----- From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:55 AM To: Tech list Subject: Re: Helium Pure voodoo. Chicken bones and all. What about hyperoxic trimix? Lets say 25/35 for giggles. And, from whom should all these shingles be acquired? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: <CaveDiving@ao*.co*> To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <cavers@ca*.co*> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 8:13 PM Subject: Helium > To the list, > > I have been involved with this list and others for a while and have learned a > great deal of valuable information. I have seen postings that I thought were > "right on!!" and others that I couldn't believe anyone could be so stupid as > to write them. I believe some of the personalities are the kind of people I > would like very much to dive with and call "friend" and others I would call > "sick" (to put it mildly) and would quickly use my cave diver's prerogative > "to call a dive at any time for any reason" before entering any overhead > environment with them as a member of the team. I believe in the basic > concepts of DIR (not necessarily all of the details yet but I'm working on > it) and am slowly changing a number of the ways I dive in accordance with > this. I have tried to bring some information and interesting discussions to > this list. > > Recently, I have started to see an opinion coming out on the lists that > bothers me a great deal. It deals with the use of helium in breathing mixes > by divers untrained and uncertified in its use. Basically it scares the hell > out of me so I thought I ought to bring it out in the open. I am afraid that > we may be heading for some serious trouble if we don't take a stand against > this idea. And I guess I'm looking for some support in my concerns. > > Now first, for those of you that don't know me, I need to indicate that while > I am certainly not a famous cave explorer or record setting deep diver, I > don't believe that I'm a particularly wimp diver either. I am older and so > perhaps a little more conservative (I will be 60 this year), will never make > 3% body fat (or even 5 or 6% for that matter) and I do have an 80 mm > stainless steel screw holding one ankle together. But on the other hand this > winter I made my 2,000th dive, around half of which have been either in an > overhead environment or deeper than 200 feet, and my deeper dives this year > were below 400 feet. I am an active PADI Master Scuba Diver Trainer, NAUI > Instructor Trainer, SSI Divecon Instructor, IANTD Advanced Nitrox Instructor > and Trimix Blender Instructor, ANDI Technical Safe Air 3 Instructor, TDI > Advanced Trimix, Full Cave and Rebreather Instructor, and a DAN Oxygen > Provider and REMO Instructor. I teach at Scuba Sciences in Phoenix in the > summer and the Akumal Dive shop in the Yucatan during the winter and it is > not unusual for me to make half mile swimming cave penetrations (around 90 > minute dives without stage tanks) and have almost half of my air remaining on > exit, four or five days a week. I am also involved in the exploration of our > "new little cave" in Belize in which we have laid around 3,700 feet of line > last winter and hope to continue more next fall. I may be older and not too > strong, but at my last treadmill test I was told I was in the top 1% of men > in my age group. > > I say all this simply to demonstrate that I believe I am not a "newbie" to > technical diving and not afraid of "pushing my own limits" so to speak. > > Recently I posted something on this list questioning whether it was wise for > someone with no formal training to be mixing and diving trimix. And the > answers it drew really surprised me. I figured it to be a no brainer; if no > training then don't do it. One of the five basic rules of accident analysis > for cave diving deals with diving beyond my level of training. And my > experience with deep diving leads me to believe that clearly here too, one of > the leading causes (to me it seems to be THE leading cause) of death is > "cockpit error", "stupidity" or "overlooking something". To me these are all > different ways of expressing "lack of training". > > Now I understand that training does not necessarily require attendance in a > class with a certified instructor and an official certification card. But > for most people I really believe that that's sure as hell the way to go. Of > course there are highly experienced and extremely knowledgeable people who > can mentor a novice and teach him or her all that is needed. But unless > there is some kind of special relationship between them, this situation is > not too common. And when is the training over? And how are we sure that > "all" of the required information has been covered? These are subjects which > have been carefully considered in a well defined course. > > It's bad enough when some of the members of this list (based on their > association with members of the WKPP team) argue that they don't need formal > training to use Helium, but I'm afraid that it's far worse when divers with > almost no access to other trained technical divers, start to do it. For > example, in a thread I've been following on rec.diver, the following quotes > typify what has been going on; > > 1) "Instrokters like you are the problem. Trimix is no different than air. > Forget what ever the stroke instructor told you about He and do some > research." > > 2) [From a diver with no trimix certification (S.A.B.)] "I would submit > that diving air is a higher risk than mix." > > 3) [When arguing against the need for a Helium use certification (S.A.B.)] > "I'm surprised you haven't launched into thread on the dangers of > mixing/blending and the horror of O2 handling." > > 4) [When arguing against the need for a Helium use certification (S.A.B.)] > "At this point I think a thread on the home servicing and testing of > Regulators is in order. Or is that too the sacred province of ...." > > 5) "Certification is only a means for those who don't want to spend the time > to > learn something properly to believe they will be safe while diving." > > And another thing which I would think is really absolutely ridiculous if it > weren't so sad, is that some of these people are actually using DIR as an > excuse. For example the statement "The advances in procedures and equipment > utilization developed by the proponents of DIR have made the exploration of > caves and open ocean much easier and safer." This statement was made in the > context of explaining why a trimix certification was not needed. > > There are many more examples of this mentality but unfortunately, I do not > have them immediately available. To me this is very similar to what was > going on in the early days of nitrox. Most of the diving community was > saying "too dangerous", the people involved were saying "it's safe and > terrific with the proper training" and the uninformed risk takers were saying > "I don't need no stinkin' training". And these latter people were using the > same excuses as are being bandied around now. "Too expensive", "instructors > only want the money", "my friend uses it and hasn't had a problem", "You're > just trying to scare us", "you want to make money cleaning tanks", "I don't > need anyone else to tell me how to dive", "there are too many BS courses", > etc. > > I would like to get some opinions from the folks on this list as to whether I > am overreacting or is there a potential problem brewing? I have no axe to > grind other than trying in my own way, to make diving in general and > technical diving in particular, a little safer. Depending on the information > I receive, I'll either stay up on my horse or STFD & STFU. Thanks for your > time. > > Take care and safe diving, Scott > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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