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I actually dive 104's with a wetsuit in the caves in Akumal - 20 feet deep, and you can crawl out. Effectively, however, diving 80's with a stage is about the same gas, and balances nicely - you do not even need any weight in the fresh water. What you find out when you do this is that it takes the full force of a Halcyon or Dive Rite wing just to keep you up - about 40 pounds of lift ( 104's w/ air -29+, regs -2, plate -1, light -7 ). In other words, in the ocean, you can drop the light, but you still will not swim up the remaining 33 pounds . The answer is not to use more wings, it is to dive a balanced rig. The drysuit with insulation gives you about 20 pounds of lift with no gas it it at all. That means you have very little to make up, and on the other hand, if you are low on gas, the empty 104s - 9, the light -7 and ther regs and plate -3 are not unmanageable. JJ and I discussed this, and we understand that we should do as we say in all situations. The correct thing would have been for me or JJ to give Kane one of our extra suits, and for both of us not to be so lazy as to leave the old deco harnesses stroke rigged. For the new people helping at the WKPP dives, we are now going to require total DIR in advance as to the little details. JJ and I are like the rest of you - we got fucked by the dive gear idiots inot some bad stuff along the way, and are a loath to throw it away as you are, so some of it continues to find uses, as in the extra harness that we use for decompression, or the old lihgts that suck which we now cut the cords off of and use as food tubes, or the bullshit wings that we now use to float things to the trough, etc. However, we are not being hypocrites - we have done the body searches for the steel tank players enough to know why we think the way we do. Case E. Harris wrote: > > Manos- > > first off, my name is Case... Here in the US, it is customary to > either call someone by their first name (Case) if it is someone > familiar, or to put a salutation such as Mister in front of one's last > name (i.e.: Mr. Harris.) When someone calls me "Harris" I really > don't know if I should respond, unless you happen to be my High School > Football coach who always calls people by their last names alone.... > > *NOW REMOVING TONGUE FROM CHEEK* > > I don't see George's reply as hypocrisy as you do. One of the primary > principles of DIR is not taking something with you which is > unnecessary and may introduce another failure point. If you're in > conditions where backup buoyancy is unnecessary, and a wetsuit is nice > and comfy, why not? Always insisting on diving dry (even when > technically not needed) would be like insisting George and JJ take > long body Gavin scooters with them to catch lobster under the boat on > a Florida Keys reef dive....just because they always take them > (necessarily so) on a long cave penetration. > > Obviously wetsuit + steels = high death potential (h.d.p.) in the > ocean, or in a cave with vertical drops, but if the area is sloped, > why not crawl out if needed? Personally, kitting up in 70 or 80 > degree heat is far nicer in a wetsuit than a drysuit, and if I really > had the choice, I would go wet... > > *REPLACING TONGUE IN ITS PREVIOUS LOCATION* > > Hey, what's up with that goofy font? It screws up my emails when I > reply to it... use something normal like Times or Arial! > > Case Harris > diveman@cy*.co* > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Manos Manoli > To: Case E. Harris ; Tech Diver > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 4:13 PM > Subject: my point of view > > Harris , > > Although your initial comment about the steels and wet suit > i found it to be so correct i disagree > with your line " I overlooked this, most logical, point and > was considering things from an open ocean standpoint. " > > Come on guys doesn't WKPP have equipment check for their > support divers ? I need someone to stand on > his feed and say " YES it was wrong this guy shouldn't be > diving with this setup " do we change our standards > depending on how someone can resist cold or by his abilities > to chimp a cave ? My personal humble opinion > is that this pic should be removed. > > It was not long before i was called stroke for diving with > my 15 liter steels and wet suit. > It all make sense to me then when George explained thats why > i spend $$$$ on Tls 350. > > It is not long ago when i got this from wkpp.. > > If you are diving a wet suit, you should be diving aluminum > tanks; never > steel. These you could comfortably swim to the surface in > the event of a wing > failure. If you must dive steel the only way to ensure your > safety is by > buying a dry suit. > > I should now by an anti-flame suit .... > > Manos. > > > > > > "Case E. Harris" wrote: > > Okay, after all the replies I've received, (some > with a not so friendly tone...but I'm used to > that!) allow me to summarize and clarify. I > realize the guy must not need the extra warmth of > a drysuit under the conditions (shallow, cavern > only, etc...) I was curious about the wetsuit with > steels more from a buoyancy standpoint. Given a > BC failure, the tanks make things awful negative > without the extra buoyancy of a > drysuit...especially at depth. Trey pointed out > (and only him... all my other flames have been how > the guy can stand the cold....) that one can crawl > out of a cave, and the drysuit as backup buoyancy > is less important there than in the ocean. Having > never been in a cave before, I overlooked this, > most logical, point and was considering things > from an open ocean standpoint. So...the subject > line of my email, "photo CURIOSITIES," (not "photo > CRITICISIMS") was quite accurate, and now my > curiosities are satisfied.... It apparantly is > okay to dive wet in steels as long as you can > crawl out, and you're not getting cold. I > agree... works for me... (Uh-oh... I'm rhyming... > better lay off the coffee this morning!) I've > attached some (names removed to protect the > innocent) of the quotes I've received... the last > one will be dealt with swiftly! Case Harris > diveman@cy*.co* someone wrote:I was there > observing that weekend. True, he did wear a > wetsuit, but > he was also diving at a max depth of 50 feet while > in a cavern and > never went into the cave. someone else wrote:I bet > you a Pepsi it won't be long till he is in > a DS. You can get away wet for support dives but > once the deco starts, you best be dry or freeze > your ass off! 70-72 degree water gets colder and > colder as you push the clock. > > someone different wrote:Anyway that was Mike Kane, > I'm surprised he was even wearing a wetsuit and > not just shorts and a t-shirt. From what I've seen > of Mike, he has > antifreeze instead of blood. > > yet another person wrote:Yeah, but that's MHK. > Throw it all out the window when dealing with > Mike.He dives up here in 42 degree water in a > wetsuit, with no hood.The guy is some kind of > lizard. and the rudest of all wrote:you dumbass... > you don't need a drysuit in florida. If you had a > fucking clue about any of the diving we do > downhere, you'd know the water is 70 plus degrees > all the time, and a shorty is about all that's > needed. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe > requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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