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Manos-

first off, my name is Case... Here in the US, it is customary to either =
call someone by their first name (Case) if it is someone familiar, or to =
put a salutation such as Mister in front of one's last name (i.e.: Mr. =
Harris.)  When someone calls me "Harris" I really don't know if I should =
respond, unless you happen to be my High School Football coach who =
always calls people by their last names alone....

*NOW REMOVING TONGUE FROM CHEEK*

I don't see George's reply as hypocrisy as you do. One of the primary =
principles of DIR is not taking something with you which is unnecessary =
and may introduce another failure point.  If you're in conditions where =
backup buoyancy is unnecessary, and a wetsuit is nice and comfy, why =
not?  Always insisting on diving dry (even when technically not needed) =
would be like insisting George and JJ take long body Gavin scooters with =
them to catch lobster under the boat on a Florida Keys reef dive....just =
because they always take them (necessarily so) on a long cave =
penetration.

Obviously wetsuit + steels =3D high death potential (h.d.p.) in the =
ocean, or in a cave with vertical drops, but if the area is sloped, why =
not crawl out if needed?  Personally, kitting up in 70 or 80 degree heat =
is far nicer in a wetsuit than a drysuit, and if I really had the =
choice, I would go wet...=20

*REPLACING TONGUE IN ITS PREVIOUS LOCATION*

Hey, what's up with that goofy font?  It screws up my emails when I =
reply to it... use something normal like Times or Arial!

Case Harris
diveman@cy*.co*
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Manos Manoli=20
  To: Case E. Harris ; Tech Diver=20
  Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 4:13 PM
  Subject: my point of view


  Harris ,=20
  Although your initial comment about the steels and wet suit i found it =
to be so correct i disagree=20
  with your line  " I overlooked this, most logical, point and was =
considering things from an open ocean standpoint. "=20

  Come on guys doesn't WKPP have equipment check for their support =
divers ? I need someone to stand on=20
  his feed and say " YES it was wrong this guy shouldn't be diving with =
this setup " do we change our standards=20
  depending on how someone can resist cold or by his abilities to chimp =
a cave ? My personal humble  opinion=20
  is that this pic should be removed.=20

  It was not long before i was called stroke for diving with my 15 liter =
steels and wet suit.=20
  It all make sense to me then when George explained thats why i spend =
$$$$ on Tls 350.=20

  It is not long ago when i got this from wkpp.. =20

  If you are diving a wet suit, you should be diving aluminum tanks; =
never=20
  steel. These you could comfortably swim to the surface in the event of =
a wing=20
  failure.  If you must dive steel the only way to ensure your safety is =
by=20
  buying a dry suit.=20

  I should now by an anti-flame suit ....=20

  Manos.=20
   =20
   =20
   =20
   =20

  "Case E. Harris" wrote:=20

    Okay, after all the replies I've received, (some with a not so =
friendly tone...but I'm used to that!) allow me to summarize and =
clarify. I realize the guy must not need the extra warmth of a drysuit =
under the conditions (shallow, cavern only, etc...) I was curious about =
the wetsuit with steels more from a buoyancy standpoint.  Given a BC =
failure, the tanks make things awful negative without the extra buoyancy =
of a drysuit...especially at depth. Trey pointed out (and only him... =
all my other flames have been how the guy can stand the cold....) that =
one can crawl out of a cave, and the drysuit as backup buoyancy is less =
important there than in the ocean.  Having never been in a cave before, =
I overlooked this, most logical, point and was considering things from =
an open ocean standpoint. So...the subject line of my email, "photo =
CURIOSITIES," (not "photo CRITICISIMS") was quite accurate, and now my =
curiosities are satisfied.... It apparantly is okay to dive wet in =
steels as long as you can crawl out, and you're not getting cold.  I =
agree... works for me... (Uh-oh... I'm rhyming... better lay off the =
coffee this morning!) I've attached some (names removed to protect the =
innocent) of the quotes I've received... the last one will be dealt with =
swiftly! Case Harris=20
    diveman@cy*.co* someone wrote:I was there observing that =
weekend. True, he did wear a wetsuit, but=20
    he was also diving at a max depth of 50 feet while in a cavern and=20
    never went into the cave. someone else wrote:I bet you a Pepsi it =
won't be long till he is in=20
    a DS.  You can get away wet for support dives but=20
    once the deco starts, you best be dry or freeze=20
    your ass off!  70-72 degree water gets colder and=20
    colder as you push the clock.=20
    someone different wrote:Anyway that was Mike Kane, I'm surprised he =
was even wearing a wetsuit and=20
    not just shorts and a t-shirt. From what I've seen of Mike, he has=20
    antifreeze instead of blood.=20

    yet another person wrote:Yeah, but that's MHK. Throw it all out the =
window when dealing with Mike.He dives up here in 42 degree water in a =
wetsuit, with no hood.The guy is some kind of lizard. and the rudest of =
all wrote:you dumbass... you don't need a drysuit in florida. If you had =
a fucking clue about any of the diving we do downhere, you'd know the =
water is 70 plus degrees all the time, and a shorty is about all that's =
needed.

  -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to =
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to =
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dx-user-defined" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Manos-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>first off, my name is Case... Here in =
the US, it is=20
customary to either call someone by their first name (Case) if it is =
someone=20
familiar, or to put a salutation such as Mister in front of one's last =
name=20
(i.e.: Mr. Harris.)  When someone calls me "Harris" I really don't =
know if=20
I should respond, unless you happen to be my High School Football coach =
who=20
always calls people by their last names alone....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>*NOW REMOVING TONGUE FROM =
CHEEK*</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't see George's reply as hypocrisy =
as you do.=20
One of the primary principles of DIR is not taking something with you =
which is=20
unnecessary and may introduce another failure point.  If you're in=20
conditions where backup buoyancy is unnecessary, and a wetsuit is nice =
and=20
comfy, why not?  Always insisting on diving dry (even when =
technically not=20
needed) would be like insisting George and JJ take long body Gavin =
scooters with=20
them to catch lobster under the boat on a Florida Keys reef dive....just =
because=20
they always take them (necessarily so) on a long cave =
penetration.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Obviously wetsuit + steels =3D high =
death potential=20
(h.d.p.) in the ocean, or in a cave with vertical drops, but if the area =
is=20
sloped, why not crawl out if needed?  Personally, kitting up in 70 =
or 80=20
degree heat is far nicer in a wetsuit than a drysuit, and if I really =
had the=20
choice, I would go wet... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>*REPLACING TONGUE IN ITS PREVIOUS=20
LOCATION*</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey, what's up with that goofy =
font?  It=20
screws up my emails when I reply to it... use something normal like =
Times or=20
Arial!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Case Harris<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:diveman@cy*.co*">diveman@cyberdude.com</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:manos@ma*.co*.cy*" =
title=3Dmanos@ma*.co*.cy*>Manos=20
  Manoli</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:diveman@cy*.co*" =
title=3Ddiveman@cy*.co*>Case E.=20
  Harris</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
  title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>Tech Diver</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 04, 2000 =
4:13=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> my point of
view</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Harris ,=20
  <P>Although your initial comment about the steels and wet suit i found =
it to=20
  be so correct i disagree <BR>with your line  " I overlooked this, =
most=20
  logical, point and was considering things from an open ocean =
standpoint. "=20
  <P>Come on guys doesn't WKPP have equipment check for their support =
divers ? I=20
  need someone to stand on <BR>his feed and say " YES it was wrong this =
guy=20
  shouldn't be diving with this setup " do we change our standards =
<BR>depending=20
  on how someone can resist cold or by his abilities to chimp a cave ? =
My=20
  personal humble  opinion <BR>is that this pic should be removed.=20
  <P>It was not long before i was called stroke for diving with my 15 =
liter=20
  steels and wet suit. <BR>It all make sense to me then when George =
explained=20
  thats why i spend $$$$ on Tls 350.=20
  <P>It is not long ago when i got this from wkpp.. =20
  <P>If you are diving a wet suit, you should be diving aluminum tanks; =
never=20
  <BR>steel. These you could comfortably swim to the surface in the =
event of a=20
  wing <BR>failure.  If you must dive steel the only way to ensure =
your=20
  safety is by <BR>buying a dry suit.=20
  <P>I should now by an anti-flame suit ....=20
  <P>Manos. <BR>  <BR>  <BR>  <BR> =20
  <P>"Case E. Harris" wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">
    <STYLE></STYLE>
    <FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Okay, after all the replies I've =
received,=20
    (some with a not so friendly tone...but I'm used to that!) allow me =
to=20
    summarize and clarify. I realize the guy must not need the extra =
warmth of a=20
    drysuit under the conditions (shallow, cavern only, etc...) I was =
curious=20
    about the wetsuit with steels more from a buoyancy standpoint.  =
Given a=20
    BC failure, the tanks make things awful negative without the extra =
buoyancy=20
    of a drysuit...especially at depth.</FONT></FONT> <FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Trey pointed out (and only him... all =
my other=20
    flames have been how the guy can stand the cold....) that one can =
crawl out=20
    of a cave, and the drysuit as backup buoyancy is less important =
there than=20
    in the ocean.  Having never been in a cave before, I overlooked =
this,=20
    most logical, point and was considering things from an open ocean=20
    standpoint.</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D-1>So...the=20
    subject line of my email, "photo CURIOSITIES," (not "photo =
CRITICISIMS") was=20
    quite accurate, and now my curiosities are satisfied.... It =
apparantly is=20
    okay to dive wet in steels as long as you can crawl out, and you're =
not=20
    getting cold.  I agree... works for =
me...</FONT></FONT> <FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>(Uh-oh... I'm rhyming... better lay off =
the coffee=20
    this morning!)</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D-1>I've=20
    attached some (names removed to protect the innocent) of the quotes =
I've=20
    received... the last one will be dealt with=20
    swiftly!</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT
size=3D-1>Case=20
    Harris</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT
size=3D-1><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:diveman@cy*.co*">diveman@cyberdude.com</A></FONT></F=
ONT> <FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>someone wrote:</FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
    size=3D-1>I was there observing that weekend. True, he did wear a =
wetsuit,=20
    but</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>he
was also =
diving at a=20
    max depth of 50 feet while in a cavern and</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>never went into the =
cave.</FONT></FONT> <FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>someone else
wrote:</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>I bet you a Pepsi it won't be long till =
he is=20
    in</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>a
DS.  =
You can get=20
    away wet for support dives but</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
    size=3D-1>once the deco starts, you best be dry or =
freeze</FONT></FONT>=20
    <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>your ass off!  70-72 =
degree water=20
    gets colder and</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D-1>colder as=20
    you push the clock.</FONT></FONT>=20
    <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>someone different=20
    wrote:</FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Anyway
that =
was Mike=20
    Kane, I'm surprised he was even wearing a wetsuit and</FONT></FONT>=20
    <BR><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>not just shorts and a =
t-shirt. From what=20
    I've seen of Mike, he has</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=3DArial><FONT =

    size=3D-1>antifreeze instead of blood.</FONT></FONT>=20
    <P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>yet another person=20
    wrote:</FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Yeah,
but =
that's MHK.=20
    Throw it all out the window when dealing with =
Mike.</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
    face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>He dives up here in 42 degree water in =
a wetsuit,=20
    with no hood.</FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT
size=3D-1>The =
guy is some=20
    kind of lizard.</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D-1>and the=20
    rudest of all wrote:</FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D-1>you=20
    dumbass... you don't need a drysuit in florida. If you had a fucking =
clue=20
    about any of the diving we do down</FONT></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
    size=3D-1>here, you'd know the water is 70 plus degrees all the =
time, and a=20
    shorty is about all that's
needed.</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>-- =
Send mail=20
  for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send=20
  subscribe/unsubscribe requests to=20
`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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