Paul Write wrote

> In the UK PADI etc are trying, with mixed success, to enforce basic
> standards such as independent air sources for instructors but can only
> enforce these standards if WE, the divers who witness shite standards,
> report them to the certifying authority.

Wrong, it's the good old HSE who require the use of independent air sources
not PADI

I agree with your sentiments Paul but HSE normally only get involved in the
event of a fatality or where an "employee"  contacts them regarding unsafe
practices in the employers business. It was only a few years ago when the
HSE were not interested in diving. Problem is, if any business or sport in
the UK fails to regulate itself which in turn leads to fatalities then the
HSE take an interest and manage to impose a shit load of burocracy which
no-one understands or follows.
We can avoid all this shite by having good standards, good instructors, good
attitude, good kit  and safe diving. Might even be called "doing it right"
:-)

David J. Applin
Chichester
England
david.applin@ta*.co*

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Wright <paul@ca*.co*.uk*>
To: <trey@ne*.co*>; Joel Silverstein <joelsilverstein@wo*.at*.ne*>
Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: retraction


> George, Do you feel that it is a factor of size, a factor of management or
a
> combination of both that GUE has so far got an apparently unblemished
record
> with regard to maintaining standards and effective policing.
>
> I would imagine that as long as it remains a tiny organisation under the
> direct control of JJ et al than the standards will remain high. Obviously
JJ
> wants it to retain an unblemished record, after all, do any of us want to
> see any inadequate training taking place? I don't think anyone who is
mature
> in mind as well as body would wish to see poor standards perpetuated.
> However, the scheme has to be to expand GUE if the message that it wishes
to
> spread and the standards it wishes to promote are to be accepted in the
face
> of larger organisations.
>
> How large can it become before standards are compromised in order to sell
> courses?
>
> I suppose the point I am making is that once the GUE code of training gets
> out into a wider sphere of dive schools then there will inevitably be
owners
> and instructors who break standards to save a few pennies.
>
> In the UK PADI etc are trying, with mixed success, to enforce basic
> standards such as independent air sources for instructors but can only
> enforce these standards if WE, the divers who witness shite standards,
> report them to the certifying authority.
>
> I don't know what happens in the US but in the UK if no action is taken by
> the certifying/controlling authority then the Health & Safety Executive
can
> become involved, at which point things can get quite entertaining.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trey <trey@ne*.co*>
> To: Joel Silverstein <joelsilverstein@wo*.at*.ne*>
> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:59 AM
> Subject: Re: retraction
>
>
> > Joel I can name you some from the other agencies whom a court of law has
> > effectively said are "bad" - would you like that instead of a general
> > retraction? You were correct about bad ones, it is just true the GUE has
> > not managed to add any bad ones yet, and hopefully never will.
> >
> > Joel Silverstein wrote:
> > >
> > > A few days ago I made a post regarding the qualities of instructors of
> all
> > > levels from all agencies across the board. Some have taken issue with
> the
> > > inclusion of GUE to the list. Although no specific mention to any
> > > particular person or any agency as indicated, nor was there a specific
> > > situation noted, suffice to say that after a long conversation with JJ
> this
> > > morning I retract the inclusion of GUE to that list.
> > >
> > > GUE is small and growing and the direct controls they have in place
seem
> to
> > > be satisfactory to their founders.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Joel Silverstein
> > >
> > > PS - Considering that no particular situation was cited for that post.
I
> > > will retract the statement regarding all the agencies mentioned (PADI,
> > > IANTD, TDI, GUE, ANDI, NAUI, PSA, BSAC, etc.)  Agencies don't train
> divers,
> > > people do.
> > >
> > > --
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> >
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