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Steve, Sure N2 is a narcotic but the fact that He feels cold when breathed while air feels < so is not due to the narcotic effect of N2 dulling the temperature receptors of the lungs. If U say that U R reinventing physiology, especially since lungs have a paucity of innervation. I am not going to geti into a contest RE: dives I do or don't or the reading I do or don't. As erudite a diver that U submit U R, maybe U can enlighten us w/ some citations that elaborate on your postulate that it is because He non narcotic that it feels cold when breathed. Also if U play nice, I will definitely love to discuss the fallacies of your thinking. A hint may B to read what Hans posted. Safe bubbles Esat Atikkan --- Steve Hogan <Steve.Hogan@tr*.co*> wrote: > Esat, > > I did not make up anything on physiology or physics. > N2 IS narcotic and there IS an anesthetic effect... > period. > > Try doing your own reading (and diving) > to confirm. I do not have the references here > but when I find some time I am sure I will find them > (or someone else will do me the favor). > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Esat Atikkan [mailto:atikkan@ya*.co*] > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 8:39 PM > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > Subject: RE: Helium > > > > > > Oh boy someone reinventing physiol & physics > again. > > > > Anesthetic effect of N2 inhibiting 'feeling cold'. > > > Huh! > > Suggest U read a bit about heat conduction before > > pontificating w/ gradoise ideas. > > > > Simple - put your hand on a piece of metal @ rm > temp. > > How does it feel? Cold - voila a concept > xplained. > > Apply that to HeOx, w/ its rapidly diffusing (read > > heat conducting) component & that is why breathing > > HeOx feels colder though net respiratory heat loss > is > > actually < relative to air or nitrox breathing > > Safe bubbles > > Esat Atikkan > > > > --- Steve Hogan <Steve.Hogan@tr*.co*> wrote: > > > > > > You guys should try diving the stuff instead > > > offering up opinion > > > without experience. > > > > > > The fallacy is that helium makes one lose heat > is > > > just that, a fallacy. > > > > > > The reference is that most people go from diving > air > > > (or NTX) > > > with its inherent narcotic (and anesthetic) > > > properties and are lulled > > > into thinking that helium makes them feel > colder. > > > What is really happening > > > is with the air and NTX dives, the anesthetic > effect > > > of the nitrogen masks the > > > cold feeling that people diving with a decent > amount > > > of helium will > > > "sense". They are no colder, just able to sense > more > > > because those > > > diving with helium are more alert. > > > > > > Try a dive using a NTX (or air) mix first, then > do > > > the same dive again > > > using mix. Use the proper thermal protection > (none > > > of this wetsuit stuff > > > so one gets chilled and artificailly throws off > the > > > results) > > > > > > Then try it again in the other order. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Brian Greenberg > > > [mailto:grnbrg@cc*.UM*.CA*] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:43 AM > > > > To: mjblackmd@ya*.co* > > > > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > Subject: Re: Helium > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J. Black writes: > > > > > Ben Wiseley wrote: > > > > > > I read somewhere that you needed the > narcotic > > > properties > > > > of nitrogen > > > > > > to off-set some effect of helium... (snip) > But > > > for > > > > recreational divers > > > > > > would heliox be preferred (assuming money > was > > > no object)? > > > > In other > > > > > > words... if money didn't matter at all > would > > > diving to 60 feet on > > > > > > heliox be safer than air? > > > > > > > > > > The disadvantages of helium include > increased > > > conductive heat loss, > > > > > > > > Not true. Helium is indeed more conductive > than > > > nitrogen, > > > > which is why > > > > it should not be used as a suit gas. However, > > > conductive > > > > heat loss through > > > > the lungs is actually less with helium, as the > > > heat capacity > > > > of helium > > > > is lower than nitrogen. In fact, a given > volume > > > of HE will > > > > absorb about > > > > 70% of the heat than an equivalent volume of > N2, > > > so net > > > > effect is that > > > > HE mixes may feel cooler, but in fact bleed > off > > > less heat > > > > than nitrogen mixes. > > > > > > > > Cp (HE) -- 20.786 Joules / Kelvin Mole > > > > Cp (N2) -- 29.12 Joules / Kelvin Mole > > > > > > > > CAVEAT: While I've done the math, I've never > > > actually done a > > > > mix dive. Yet. > > > > :) > > > > > > > > Brian. > > > > (Armchair diving at it's best.) > > > > -- > > > > grnbrg@cc*.um*.ca* > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://im.yahoo.com > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! 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