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The oxygen appears to be narcotic. I do not assume that the reduced nitrogen is helping me any in nitrox. Basicly , nitrox is sa useless gas in my opinion other than in short decompressions at the shallower depths. Helium is expensive everywhere. I go through about $5,000 worth per year, and I am using a rebreather for the longer dives. Lately I have been diving only open circuit, and I notice is it really adding up fast. Also, when you use trimix for deco gasses, the amount of oxygen you have to add to get the simple mixes goes way up. Simon Murray wrote: > > I suspect that I am also finding the Oxygen narcotic. Unfortunately, in > South Africa, Helium is relatively expensive almost double the EE you > posted. That is no excuse for not diving the correct mix, however, I dont > want to add more helium than I need to. > > Do you have any rules of thumb or formulas for calculating AED's ? As I > said in an earlier post, different deco software programs seem to use > different formulas ? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > To: Simon Murray <simonm@ho*.co*.za*> > Cc: Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 3:28 PM > Subject: Re: My Dive this weekend an "Air" thing > > > Simon, to make it worse, the geniuses at the training agencies teach > > nitrox to this depth. I feel so badly for the poor guys who have to deal > > with these people. Finally now there is an alternative - GUE. > > > > > > Simon Murray wrote: > > > > > > George, > > > > > > Two weeks ago I showed myself, first hand, just how insidious narcosis > can > > > be. We were diving an area of a flooded mine at 36m (118ft). I had > arrived > > > late and wasn't able to arrange the mix I have used in the past (28/10) > and, > > > stupidly, decided to dive Nitrox 28. As I hit the 36m level, I could > feel a > > > slight narcosis buzz. > > > > > > About halfway through the dive, we were exploring a side tunnel that had > an > > > alcove in it with a 45-degree shaft in the floor joining it to the level > > > below. I went in to the alcove, looked down the incline shaft and then > > > began to slowly turn around in the tight space. While I was turning, I > > > stirred up a little silt and simultaneously sank a few meters into the > > > shaft. To say the least, it was a big surprise not to see my buddies or > the > > > line (only empty passage in the level below) I was now at 39m (128ft). > It > > > felt like I long while before I realised what had happened and re-traced > my > > > steps- to find my buddy waiting. > > > > > > The whole incident took, perhaps, 30 seconds, but I am quite sure it > would > > > not have happened if I had been diving the correct mix. > > > > > > Simon > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > > > To: techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Cc: <wkpp@eg*.op*.co*> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 3:35 PM > > > Subject: My Dive this weekend an "Air" thing > > > > > > > I did a dive yesterday that really opened my eyes on this air issue. > > > > It was the 300 for 42 that I discussed the deco on before. > > > > > > > > I was mixed in my stage and on my back with 11% oxygen , 60% helium > > > > trimix. I was diving D Tunnel of Wakulla, a clear tunnel , with Casey > > > > McKinlay and Barry Miller - both long time dive partners. I know the > > > > tunnel, so do they - a comfortable dive. > > > > > > > > The dive plan was to go thorugh A to D, switch to backgas but > keeping > > > > the stages for the video effect, turn on the video lights, and go the > > > > the last room , filming each area as we went. It was a beautiful dive. > > > > At about 2600 feet in we found the spot where Exley and DeLoach had > lost > > > > a scooter and De Loach was towing Exley. Sheck's compass strap had got > > > > caught in the Aquazepp prop and it ripped it from his wrist. Exley > ended > > > > up swimming all the way out by himself - an amazing feat that took all > > > > of his gas plus five safety bottles. > > > > > > > > We found that compass on the floor and videoed it, with me picking > it > > > > up and holding it to the camera lens and then putting it back. I had > no > > > > trouble doing this cleanly and steadily at 306 feet. By the way this > is > > > > one of the best videos we have ever made. > > > > > > > > We then came across some ridiculous cluster that the usct had had, > > > > with a line run over a bridge in the cave to the roof and back down > and > > > > then cut off and left flapping in the breeze. We wondered what kind of > > > > panicky screwup that was about. No problem , knew what that was right > > > > away and it did not throw us off at all. > > > > > > > > Moving on we got the the last horizontal room ( then there is a > > > > vertical room with a 100 foot rise but we did not want to get into > that > > > > ). The second to last room is spectacular, white walled with blue > water > > > > and quite large. Barry moved a little off the line into the room with > > > > his camera, I moved sideways to the middle, and Casey went all around > > > > the room with his video light) . > > > > > > > > I had my back to Barry, but could see his steady bright video lights > , > > > > and my back to the line, concentrating on lighting in the direction of > > > > Casey. Unknown to me, three other WKPP divers had scootered past us > > > > behind me towards the last room. Casey signalled to us to wrap it up, > > > > and I stowed my video head and turned the canister off. > > > > > > > > But I was still all lit up. I then tried to turn it "off" again. It > > > > went back on instead. I then turned it off again, and I was still all > > > > lit up. I was getting concerned. I did not want to blast the battery > > > > pack and have it offgas. I turned back to look at Barry for advice ( > > > > Casey was now in front of me stowing his light as well). There were > two > > > > Barrys!! I could see his two video lights and his primary, and three > > > > more primarys in a triangle just like his three lights. This was > > > > lighting me up. I scanned my light around the room looking for what > was > > > > causing the "reflection". I looked at my lights to see how many were > on. > > > > I looked at Casey again to be sure he was still on the outbound side > of > > > > me . I looked back at Barry, and then droped down to see if I was > > > > hitting a halocline and if that was causing the "reflection". There > was > > > > none. I checked my gas - a habit when confused. No problem. I then > > > > thought I had just seen that same reading, so I checked my left knob - > > > > it was on. I check my gas again. Still the same, I hit the guage on my > > > > stage tank - still the same, and then I saw it move a little when I > > > > breathed - it was OK. All this for nothing but confusion over the > > > > lights. > > > > > > > > I waited for Barry to move towards me while watching Casey - I did > not > > > > want Casey to move while I was feeling like I was "leaving" those > > > > lights, even though I had no idea what they were, but I could not tell > > > > which was the "real" Barry. I still did not realize that there were > six > > > > divers, not three, depsite the evidence ( I could only see their > lights > > > > shining at me, not their bodies or scooters). Then is slowly dawned on > > > > me that it was divers, and then it was a few seconds before it > > > > registered that they were our divers ( like where else could they have > > > > come from), and then I was still wondering how they could have gone by > > > > me, and then I figured that out about three minutes later. This was 5 > > > > minutes of confusion that I am glad was in a non-emergency situation. > > > > > > > > When we got back to A Tunnel, there were five divers at the junction > , > > > > a cool site in a place like that, and easier to recognize since we > were > > > > now 60 feet shallower and I could see the bodies of the dives as well > as > > > > the lights . We tightened up so as not to confuse each other - the > other > > > > divers stopped and gathered above us while we got out of the way so as > > > > not to cause a mixup. I unhooked the line form Gregg Jackson's scooter > > > > handle as I went by - this was Bill Stones spiderweb mess floating > free > > > > in the cave that had cought Jackson's scooter. > > > > > > > > At deco, on the slope there were divers everywhere, and it was a > > > > spectacular site seeing all of those lights floating up out of the > cave. > > > > > > > > If this is what 60% trimix does with an "AED" of 85 feet in a > familiar > > > > setting in clear water with the best divers as dive partners, what is > > > > happening to the student out there and the new divers who are getting > > > > the Pete Hess bullshit that " if you can not do 170 on air you have no > > > > business trimix diving"? > > > > > > > > We have a serious problem in the dive training industry and in "tech" > > > > diving with the ignorance and moronity of the big mouths who have > never > > > > "been there done that" except in their own minds in the most pathetic > > > > little weenie bounce diving do nothing way - none of these guys have > > > > been "Downtown" or played hardball and as such have no idea what the > > > > real story is. These people are influencing diving and that is why we > > > > have so many "unexplained" accidents. > > > > > > > > It behooves all of us in the WKPP and anyone else with a brain on > their > > > > shoulders to get out there and counter the Pete hess's and other > > > > horrendous ignoramuses in diving in and out of the "training" agencies > . > > > > We owe it to everyone to do this, since we have the real experience > and > > > > know for certain what the problems are and can see why the deaths are > > > > stacking up. > > > > > > > > We are doing things underwater for years with a perfrect track record > > > > that none of these big mouths has ever or will ever do, and we need to > > > > have the confindence to point that out to everyone and to take the > abuse > > > > from the Big Vons and other lowlifes and keep telling the story and > keep > > > > refering to what we really do and what our scorecard looks like, and > > > > save some lives in the process. > > > > > > > > You have all seen the extreme measure that some of the training > agency > > > > jerks have gone to in order to try to discredit me and the WKPP, and > you > > > > constantly see the viciousness of the attacks out of the > > > > representatives of these agencies and the deep air or bullshit > equipment > > > > crowd. We are blowing the whistle on all of them, and that is why. We > > > > need to have the same tanacity that they do . > > > > > > > > There is no reason to ever be polite to a dangerous idiot, and there > is > > > > no reason not to step all over them with the facts every last time > they > > > > stick their heads up, I would appreciate it if more of our members > would > > > > take the time to teach other people the truth, and to kick some of > these > > > > strokes right in the ass publicly whenever you can with extreme > > > > prejudice. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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