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At 05:27 28/11/99 , Grant Jones wrote: >billy wrote: > > >The only assumption I made was about swimming being easier > >while using a reg one handed than while administering EAR > > And: > > >If I can operate the reg with one hand, > >that leaves one hand free to extend the neck and/or seal the > >nose. > > So its not really one handed is it?, its two, same as in EAR I don;t know why you're not getting this Grant. The reg is being operated ONE-Handed, not TWO. SO the other hand is free to pinching the nose and perhaps straighten the airway. SInce one is also not breathing into the victim, swimming would be easier than when applying EAR. You can either tell me why this assumption is incorrect. Or just keep trying to find a hole. > And don't forget its not just a case of purging and towing, you also >have to keep an eye on the victim, if they start to vomit / breathe on their >own, and you decide to purge them you could do some serious damage to them, >the EAR position is ideal for this, even if you are using positive purging. > > Your best bet, is find some nice choppy water (not a nice warm swimming >pool), add a sucker that likes breathing water Let's see, I have control of the reg and the nose. Where does the water get in? And unlike the rescuer's mouth during EAR, the reg never leaves the victim's mouth. >then go and have some towing >practice (fully kitted of course), Like I wrote. first understand what you are trying to achieve, then go work it out and practise it. There is no other way. There are no holes Grant. Keep looking though. rgrds billyw >-----Original Message----- >From: bdi@wh*.ne* <bdi@wh*.ne*> >To: techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >Date: 27 November 1999 13:54 >Subject: Re:legalities of purging someone > > > >At 08:43 27/11/99 , Grant Jones wrote: > >>billy wrote: > >> > >> >No Grant. That's one handed administration of positive > >> >pressure 02 vs. two-handed EAR. You do know what EAR is? > >> > >> You still don't explain how you would: hold the reg in the mouth, >extend > >>the neck, seal the nose, purge the reg and tow the victim with only one > >>hand. > > > >Read the post again. If I can operate the reg with one hand, > >that leaves one hand free to extend the neck and/or seal the > >nose. > > > >Sealing the nose fully may not be necessary. I want to find out > >about this. But an arm can go under the victim's neck and > >wrap round so the hand can seal the nose, or that hand can > >hold the reg and the other hand seals the nose. > > > >Or depending on the disposition of the victim's body, just pinching > >the nostrils and putting pressure on nose and reg in mouth to push > >the head back will work. I'll figure this when I try it. > > > > > >> >I dout one would need to seal the exhausts completely. > >> >And I want to know whether it's necessary to seal the > >> >nostrils > >> > >> So, lets get this right - you haven't actually carried out this > >>procedure in the water, yet you can come on here and tell us all how to do > >>it? > > > >The only explanation I have given is how I can operate a > >reg one handed. The explanation was in answer to a specific > >question from Esat Attikan where he asked me to describe > >what my fingers were doing. Didn't you see the line about > >blowing the dust out of the keyboard? > > > >I've also said I'm trying to work out HOW to do this > >in the water. My only argument is with those who > >say we MUST NOT do it. > > > >> If you try it in water, you will find that the nose has to be sealed, > >>because with out the neck extension, and some times even with it the 02 >will > >>follow the path of less resistance and come out via the nose > > > >This is what I was wondering about. And congratulations. > >This is the first piece of useful information you've > >posted to the list. > > > >> >No, I haven't tried it in the water. You are seeing me > >> >figure the process out. Then I will try it. Then if I > >> >ever need to use it, I will be able to. > >> > >> Ah, I can see your reasoning now, so by the same method, all those >books > >>and videos that I've seen on trimix diving, means that if I ever need to >use > >>it, I will be able to ? > > > >Stop babbling. > > > >I wrote about a) figuring the process out (understanding), > >b) trying it (practicing & refining the technique), and > >c) being prepared to use the method when necessary. Why > >are you prattling about books and videos? > > > >> >You obviously missed (or failed to understand) the first > >> >part of the thread where two paramedics said it mustn't > >> >be done - one must accept the fact that the 02 we carry > >> >can't be administered to a non-breathing victim in the > >> >water. I disputed that. > >> > >> I missed nothing, apart from some plonker who came on here to tell us > >>all how to do some thing, > > > >Shit you're slow Grant. 1. I refuted those who said > >administration of partial pressure 02 from a diving > >regulator is impossible. 2. I answered Easat's question > >about how I worked a reg one handed. 3. I was open about > >not knowing the procedure with sealing nostrils and/or > >exhaust ports completely. And now you're trying to twist > >what I wrote and it isn't working. > > > >>that he's never even tried, in the water. Irvine > >>is basing what he's saying on having actually done it, you on the other >hand > >>are basing all your assumptions on the fact that you can do it sitting in > >>front of your PC. > > > >The only assumption I made was about swimming being easier > >while using a reg one handed than while administering EAR. > > > >I haven't told anyone how to perform positive pressure > >ventilation. I'm still figuring it out. I have argued with > >those who said it is VERBOTEN. Got it yet? > > > > > >> In the right hands, or situation then using a reg to deliver 02 (or > >>nitrox) can be a life saver, and I would carry it out if it was needed, >but > >>then again billy, I've actually practised it. > > > >I'll have this thing sussed and practiced in a week. > > > >That chip on your shoulder is fucking your head, Grant. > > > >rgrds billyw > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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