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MrClark95, tell me this is a troll! swift recovery, Hans At 09:52 AM 11/28/99 -0500, MrClark95@ao*.co* wrote: >Chris, I agree. I for one would rather hear about safe deep air diving from >Mark Zurl than any of Irvine's ridiculous pansy diving, and I too have a set >of Navy Extreme Exposure Air Tables which have served me quite well, thank >you. If you can't do it on air, you have no business diving at all. > >Zurl needs to ignore the naysayers and get back on here where he is badly >needed for the kind of great information and diving excellence he represents. >For instance, I would kill to get a closer look at how he duct tapes a pony >bottle to a set doubles - now that is a slick idea. > > >Chris Curtis wrote: > > > > To all my fellow Tech Divers; > > > > My name is Chris Curtis and I am the least talented technical diver that I > > know. However, I feel it necessary to comment upon the "trash talk" that > > seems to be popular with certain individuals. > > I have U.S. Navy Air Tables from my first scuba certification text " The > > New science of Skin and Scuba Diving" written in the 1950's and > upgraded in > > the 1960's that lists Standard and No Decompression Tables to 190' and > > Exceptional and Extreme Exposures tables to 300'. These were with equipment > > that included a single or double tank (with straps and not even a backpack, > > double hose regulators, a dive watch and MAYBE a pressure gauge ( > although I > > personally never knew any one who owned one). Scuba diving tended to be > more > > risky in regard to equipment, but was counterbalanced > by rigorous dive and > > water skills. > > > > Technology, education, and organized training have improved greatly, but > > attitude toward risks a have remained constant. People have different > levels > > of ability and experiences and therefore evaluate dives differently and > each > > person is ultimately responsible their own life. What one person may > > consider safe and routine, another may consider hazardous and exceptional. > > We are all or should be, serious or professional scuba divers whether > at 33' > > or 330' down. > > > > The belief that anyone can or should berate or degrade another person for > > experiences, skills, or practices that conflict or differ from someone else > > demonstrates a basic social maladjustment that is unsuited to group > > discussions or activities. Mark Zurl, whom I believe to an excellent diver > > and person, has been persecuted and vilified repeatedly, and now is > > withdrawn from the mailing list, to accommodate individuals with obviously > > poor communication (i.e. trash talking) and social skills and probably less > > scuba diving abilities or experience. > > > > Mr. Zurl, come back, we need you. > > > > Mr. Irvine, learn some manners. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net [mailto:FLTechDiver-owner@mikey.net]On > > Behalf Of mcz > > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 12:16 PM > > To: pina > > Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne*; techdiver; FLTechdiver@mikey.net > > Subject: Re: deep air death at 40 fathom grotto > > > > All - > > > > I subscribed to this list (techdiver, not FLTechDiver) > > recently in anticipation that I might find > > a forum whereby I might discuss technical diving with others who share > > my interests. What I have found instead was an email list that has been > > reduced to ranting and raging insults, loud mouthed bullying, personal > > attacks and belittlement, and much pointless and superflous foul language. > > All this seems to be orchestrated by just several people and anybody who > > follows this list would not have a hard time ascertaining who they are. > > > > So for the record, I am unsubscribing from this list because Mr. Irvine's > > comments below to Pina are more than outrageous, they go beyond the > > bounds of common decency and respect to divers everywhere. > > > > By the way, deep air dives can be done safely. > > > > Mark Zurl > > > > pina wrote: > > > > > Mr. Irvine, I have nothing to do with what happened, and I > totally > > > agree with you about the hazards of deep air. I don't know you nor do I > > > know most of the people on this list becauseI have only been diving since > > > this year. I dive all the time and love it very much and am always very > > > thankful for acquiring new knowledge about how to do it more safely, > which > > > is why I am on this list. > > > > > > I started diving up in the grotto and therefore know all the > > people > > > related to it, that is where I got my account of the story. But please > > > don't assume that just because I know someone who told me about what > > > happened there, that I am involved in any way. I may have started on > deep > > > air but am intelligent enough to not still be diving it. I have so very > > > much to learn about diving, which is why I tried to make my account of > > what > > > happened as unflavored by opinion as possible. I only wanted to inform > > the > > > list of the details which I personally had been privy to. > > > > > > I have no insurance to lose. I have no ego to protect. I mean no > > > disrespect to anyone, be it the families of the deceased diver who may be > > > reading this list, or you and all of the people who help through whatever > > > message suits them to spread the message to newcomers like myself that > > > diving deep air is dangerous. If it weren't for all of the helpful and > > > experienced divers I have met since I moved down here <and joined this > > > list>, *teaching* others like myself a safer way to dive, maybe I would > > > still be up there and maybe that story would have been about me. True, > > some > > > people are die hard old salty dogs about deep air. But others, like > > myself, > > > started doing it becuase I hadn't found a better way and that was all > that > > > was available to me at the time. Thank god for evolution and knowledge, > > and > > > may it continue. > > > > > > I have no interest in arguing with you or anyone else about diving, > > nor > > > do I have any place doing so with my very limited experience. I just was > > > relaying information that I thought others might be interested in. I am > > on > > > here to learn as much as possible, and in between the scattered mayhem, I > > do > > > learn quite a lot. Thank you sir, and others who have read this message, > > > for your time, and have a Happy Thanksgiving. > > > --pina > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > > > To: pina <DeepBlueSHE@ne*.co*> > > > Cc: techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; <FLTechdiver@mikey.net> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 3:59 AM > > > Subject: Re: deep air death at 40 fathom grotto > > > > > > > Pina, the dates do not matter - do stupid things like deep air and you > > > > can just keep sending out the same release each time. Bullshit is > > > > bullshit, and what is going on at 40 fathom grotto is bullshit, and > > > > everyone seems to know that othre than a small handfull of idiots. > > > > > > > > This is not my opinion, it is reality - only a moron dives deep air, > > > > teaches deep air, or would try to send out anything as stupid as > blaming > > > > a deap air death on a "violation of standards". It is a violation of > > > > common sense, and in my opinion , what you people arr doing is > criminal, > > > > and I really hope you not only get sued into oblivion, I hope you get > > > > charged with murder, because in my opionion that is what you are > > > > attempting to commit every time you do this. > > > > ' > > > > You people are so stupid and so out of line it is ridiculous. Hopefully > > > > you will lose your insurance and then your ass. > > > > > > > > > > > > pina wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The article posted on that webpage > > > > > (http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/AQUAcorps/contents.htm) is not > > > > > about the incident from last weekend (you can check the html source > > > > > and see the date it was created was 5/28/98). I haven't seen any > > > > > detailed printed information about the recent incident yet, but I > > > > > think it has been in a couple small newspaper articles. > > > > > > > > > > The trimix instructor (the survivor) was from Atlanta and the > > > > > student <instructor also> was from Tennessee. The instructor > > > > > was familiar with the site, and knew specifically that he was not to > > > > > go deeper than 200' under any circumstances. > > > > > > > > > > The pair went down a line to 220' ish which ends at a Oldsmobile, > > > > > followed that line over to a VW van and from there left the lines and > > > > > went exploring the bottom of the Grotto (with a compass I guess, or > > > > > perhaps a reel or maybe nothing at all). They drifted down the slope > > > > > to 230' and that is where the instructor said that his student shot > > > > > off swimming away from him. > > > > > > > > > > He went to chase the student and then he got entangled in > whatever > > > > > he got entangled in. The instructor stated that he got entangled > in a > > > > > line <but at 230' in the Grotto there are not very many lines, just > > > > > one straight one which is kept taught> so he must have been severely > > > > > impaired at that time, perhaps gotten entangled in his reel (if > he was > > > > > running one - which I don't know either way). By the time he got out > > > > > of it he realized he was in the red zone and ascended immediately. > > > > > > > > > > A diver on the 30 ft. platform shared air with the OOA instructor > > > > > and led him over to the o2 and alerted surface divers to the missing > > > > > diver. Someone jumped in and immediately began searching for > him, but > > > > > he was not located and after about 30 minutes it was determined that > > > > > he must be dead. His fins were found, however, at 230'. That means > > > > > that the deceased diver took off his fins in 230' of water, makes > > > > > sense. > > > > > > > > > > The instructor who survived had missed his deco stops (which I > > > > > guess were all planned for air since he had no stages... looks like > > > > > they were bluffing about those being trimix training dives). After > > > > > breathing off the o2 for a while he was sent to the hospital as a > > > > > precautionary measure, but apparently no symptoms were evident. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > NetZero - Defenders of the Free World > > > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > > > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > > > ============================================================ > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > > listserv@mi*.ne* > > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver > > > > ============================================================ > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a message to: > > listserv@mi*.ne* > > and in the *BODY* of the message type: > > unsubscribe FLTechDiver >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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