Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1CE0.5E233B44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bill Mee, In your email you claim that all the bodies you have pulled up have died as a result of the following: "lack of bottle markings, overweighting, deep air, failed bungee wings or solo diving." Can you please tell me which bodies lacked the bottle markings, whose bungie wings failed, who you recovered that was solo diving and who was overweighted. In particular I am curious which agencies you claim promote the following concepts: Overweighting, lack of bottle markings, solo diving. Also if you feel that bungee wings are dangerous would there not be a large percentage of the bungee wing wearing crowd dropping dead? You may think this a stupid question, but with your comments about them being so dangerous I am curious as to why. I agree with you that they are not streamlined, but if they are responsible for lots of deaths please inform the list as to which deaths they are responsible for. I would also be interested in why you would tell someone on the list not to listen to my opinion. And finally how many bodies have you pulled up? This email is not meant to inflame or enrage you. I am just curious as to what support you have for the previously metioned quote. Thanks, Greg Kuiper -----Original Message----- From: Bill Mee [mailto:wwm@sa*.ne*] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:42 PM To: Anthony Appleyard Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne*; techdiver@aquanaut.com; Jim Cobb; bdi; john.r.strohm@BI*.co*; Jr." Subject: Re: controlling manners on channel Anthony, There is nothing funny or polite when you recover the body of someone partially eaten by crabs or bloated beyond recogntion or foaming and bleeding at the mouth and ears after having been hauled up from 50 fathoms. It is even less funny when you find that the direct or indirect cause of death was some idiocy such as lack of bottle marking, overweighting, deep air, failed bungee wings or solo diving or some other inexcusable nonsense. When you see that such practices are either taught by or endorsed by technical dive agencies or rogue dive instructors you become even more incensed. There is no language or manners foul enough to convey my displeasure with those who encourage and promote practices which lead to death and misery. Don't you think for one moment that the relatives of these dead people simply forget about them in the same way that the "list" forgets their names and their lives. Before you go agreeing with the Dave Suttons, Kevin Flynns, Gregg Kuipers and other offended people of the techno dive world with engorged "killfiles" you stop and ask yourself if you would rather that you have someone such as George Irvine speak out on your dead behalf or you would prefer some lame and pathetic eulogy to the effect that "Why Anthony was a charming lad who died happily while doing what he enjoyed most". The fact is that George's so called "manners" get your attention and those of the others in much the same way as good car wreck stops traffic, all the while everyone complains about the traffic delay, but they rubber neck and gawk anyway. Maybe when they observe the tragedy they are more careful next time around. And then I have ask myself, what sort of "tough guy" who really go and jumps off the back of a pitching dive boat into 50 fathoms of dark water is offended by some internet hyperbole. When I listen to some of the "epistles of the offended" , which by the way have been pretty consistent over the years in terms of complaint content, I am stunned by the pompous indignance of the outraged. They rarely address the underlying issues, but instead argue with the nature of the message delivery. Why don't these guys ask themselves and others why Irvine is attacking some perceived stupidity? Instead it is alway something like "he called the training agency which said it was ok to breath from unmarked bottles dumbfucks" or he said that "the accident scene was like an evidence table at a stupidity investigation" or "they should provide free shovels with Inspriation Rebreathers" or I could go on and on. I would rather that they take the same time that they invested in the little public complaints to write out the names, published on this list, of the people who died in the last two years while in engaged in some form of technical diving, where the cause of death was preventable. If you or anyone can't figure out why Irvine is apoplectically pissed off, and instead get your panties in a wad, then feel free to email me privately and I will be happy to explain to you quite civilly the genesis of the problem. Or of course, you can do as John Strohm does and simply ask Irvine politely and privately and you will receive a very rational, articulate, deferential and polite answer. Best wishes, Bill Mee -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Appleyard <mclssaa2@fs*.mt*.um*.ac*.uk*> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 6:48 AM Subject: controlling manners on channel Someone wrote:- > Irvine quickly got added to my killfile, and it > amazes me why anyone listens to his drivel. john.r.strohm@BI*.co* replied (Subject: Re: A question about who is the mouth):- > Well, I'll tell you, Dave. I listen to George because he and his team have > done some absolutely incredible things, with a safety record that is > several orders of magnitude better than anyone else. ... There are these two sorts of things that people may object to on channel:- (A) If in some matter of diving, I say that X=2, and Irvine says that X=3, then each may say that the other's opinion is drivel, but they are both reasoned statements and have a right to be heard, whether each is right or wrong. I know it's annoying if the two persist in differing, but that's life. (B) Abuse and bad language, such as one recent message that contained 2 screenfuls of lavatory-mouthing in uppercase, I pity any women on channel who must wade through that sort of stuff. To me, it isn't just the offensiveness, but the bulk for me to wade through before I start work in the mornings: e.g. today half of my incoming email was the "A question about who is the mouth" thread. Does "a stroke" as often used on this list as an accusation mean "someone who strokes his own ego"? If not, what?, so we know what we are talking about. Who on this list has heard of netiquette? PLEASE why can't this list temporarily have a moderator until peoples' manners and tempers simmer down? Reiteration and bad language don't get through on email groups as Tolklang and Virus-L that have a moderator. ................................................................... Anthony Appleyard, http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk (sci-fi stories, 3D graphics, software) -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1CE0.5E233B44 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2448.0"> <TITLE>RE: controlling manners on channel</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bill Mee,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In your email you claim that all the bodies you have = pulled up have died as a result of the following: "lack of = bottle markings, overweighting, deep air, failed bungee wings or solo = diving." Can you please tell me which bodies lacked the = bottle markings, whose bungie wings failed, who you recovered = that was solo diving and who was overweighted. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In particular I am curious which agencies you claim = promote the following concepts:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Overweighting,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lack of bottle markings,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>solo diving.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Also if you feel that bungee wings are dangerous = would there not be a large percentage of the bungee wing wearing crowd = dropping dead? You may think this a stupid question, but with = your comments about them being so dangerous I am curious as to = why. I agree with you that they are not streamlined, but if they = are responsible for lots of deaths please inform the list as to which = deaths they are responsible for.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would also be interested in why you would tell = someone on the list not to listen to my opinion.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>And finally how many bodies have you pulled = up?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This email is not meant to inflame or enrage = you. I am just curious as to what support you have for the = previously metioned quote.</FONT></P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Greg Kuiper</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Bill Mee [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:wwm@sa*.ne*">mailto:wwm@safari.net</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:42 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Anthony Appleyard</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cc: kirvine@sa*.ne*; techdiver@aquanaut.com; Jim = Cobb; bdi;</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>john.r.strohm@BI*.co*; Jr."</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: controlling manners on channel</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Anthony,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is nothing funny or polite when you recover the = body of someone</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>partially eaten by crabs or bloated beyond = recogntion or foaming and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bleeding at the mouth and ears after having been = hauled up from 50 fathoms.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>It is even less funny when you find that the direct = or indirect cause of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>death was some idiocy such as lack of bottle = marking, overweighting, deep</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>air, failed bungee wings or solo diving or some = other inexcusable nonsense.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>When you see that such practices are either taught = by or endorsed by</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>technical dive agencies or rogue dive instructors = you become even more</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>incensed.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is no language or manners foul enough to convey = my displeasure with</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>those who encourage and promote practices which lead = to death and misery.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Don't you think for one moment that the relatives of = these dead people</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>simply forget about them in the same way that the = "list" forgets their names</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and their lives.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Before you go agreeing with the Dave Suttons, Kevin = Flynns, Gregg Kuipers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and other offended people of the techno dive world = with engorged "killfiles"</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>you stop and ask yourself if you would rather that = you have someone such as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>George Irvine speak out on your dead behalf or = you would prefer some lame</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and pathetic eulogy to the effect that "Why = Anthony was a charming lad who</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>died happily while doing what he enjoyed = most".</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The fact is that George's so called = "manners" get your attention and those</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of the others in much the same way as good car wreck = stops traffic, all the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>while everyone complains about the traffic delay, = but they rubber neck and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>gawk anyway. Maybe when they observe the = tragedy they are more careful</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>next time around.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>And then I have ask myself, what sort of "tough = guy" who really go and jumps</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>off the back of a pitching dive boat into 50 fathoms = of dark water is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>offended by some internet hyperbole. When I = listen to some of the "epistles</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of the offended" , which by the way have been = pretty consistent over the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>years in terms of complaint content, I am stunned by = the pompous indignance</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of the outraged. They rarely address the = underlying issues, but instead</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>argue with the nature of the message delivery. = Why don't these guys ask</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>themselves and others why Irvine is attacking some = perceived stupidity?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Instead it is alway something like "he called = the training agency which said</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>it was ok to breath from unmarked bottles = dumbfucks" or he said that "the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>accident scene was like an evidence table at a = stupidity investigation" or</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>"they should provide free shovels with = Inspriation Rebreathers" or I could</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>go on and on. I would rather that they take = the same time that they</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>invested in the little public complaints to write = out the names, published</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>on this list, of the people who died in the last two = years while in engaged</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>in some form of technical diving, where the cause of = death was preventable.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If you or anyone can't figure out why Irvine is = apoplectically pissed off,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and instead get your panties in a wad, then feel = free to email me privately</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and I will be happy to explain to you quite civilly = the genesis of the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>problem. Or of course, you can do as John Strohm = does and simply ask Irvine</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>politely and privately and you will receive a very = rational, articulate,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>deferential and polite answer.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Best wishes,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Bill Mee</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Anthony Appleyard = <mclssaa2@fs*.mt*.um*.ac*.uk*></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: techdiver@aquanaut.com = <techdiver@aquanaut.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 6:48 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: controlling manners on channel</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> Someone wrote:-</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Irvine quickly got added to my killfile, and = it</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> amazes me why anyone listens to his = drivel.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> john.r.strohm@BI*.co* replied (Subject: Re: A = question about who is the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>mouth):-</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Well, I'll tell you, Dave. I listen to = George because he and his team</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>have</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> done some absolutely incredible things, with a = safety record that is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> several orders of magnitude better than anyone = else. ...</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> There are these two sorts of things that = people may object to on channel:-</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> (A) If in some matter of diving, I say that = X=3D2, and Irvine says that X=3D3,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>then each may say that the other's opinion is = drivel, but they are both</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>reasoned statements and have a right to be heard, = whether each is right or</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>wrong. I know it's annoying if the two persist in = differing, but that's</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>life.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> (B) Abuse and bad language, such as one = recent message that contained 2</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>screenfuls of lavatory-mouthing in uppercase, I pity = any women on channel</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>who</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>must wade through that sort of stuff. To me, it = isn't just the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>offensiveness,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>but the bulk for me to wade through before I start = work in the mornings:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>e.g.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>today half of my incoming email was the "A = question about who is the mouth"</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>thread. Does "a stroke" as often used on = this list as an accusation mean</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>"someone who strokes his own ego"? If not, = what?, so we know what we are</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>talking about. Who on this list has heard of = netiquette?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> PLEASE why can't this list temporarily have a = moderator until peoples'</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>manners and tempers simmer down? Reiteration and bad = language don't get</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>through on email groups as Tolklang and Virus-L that = have a moderator.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> = ....................................................................</FO= NT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Anthony Appleyard, <A = HREF=3D"http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.buckrogers.demon.co.uk</A> (sci-fi = stories, 3D</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>graphics, software)</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to = `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to = `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1CE0.5E233B44-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]