On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:

> This is complete slop - try planning the dives properly. You still don't
> get the fact that we are in the Gulfstream, we are where the ships have
> to run, and we are sitting at two major ports. You are so full of
> bullshit, Art, it is frightening. 
>

George, you're totally missing the target on this one.  Yes,
if you can afford to charter the boat with not more than
three or four people, and you all dive as a team, and all surface
at the same time, *and* there's a chase boat in case someone
gets loose while still decoing, then sure, a drift dive with
a torpedo float is what to do, and you can safely dive
and not violate rule #1.  But that's not possible for 99% of the
people up here.

That's all there is to it.  That isn't going to change.  Why do
you suppose some of the more paranoid divers have EPIRBS?  I'll
never forget that guy a few years ago who was left hanging on
a bouy 20 miles out to sea because the "crew" of the Wahoo
didn't do a head count before leaving.

And while I'm on the subject, there's something about your
late rantings that's been bugging me.  Why is it that all
these people die on the Andrea Doria, yet there are lots
of hairier wrecks of equal or greater depth up here, like 
almost anything in the Mudhole, but almost nobody dies
diving those?  Why?  If you look at the stats, in terms
of diver-hours, the time spent on the mudhole wrecks probably 
comes pretty close to rivalling the time on the 'Doria every year.

I don't have an answer to that, but I can take a good guess.
The 'Doria has this reputation as the "Mount Everest" of technical
diving (which it's not), and as a consequence, we get alot of people 
diving it who have something to prove, and probably shouldn't be there, 
even though they've punched their trimix c-card.  Quite frankly, while
I could rag on typical N.E. gear configuration for hours, I'm
fairly convinced that the statistics are so unevenly skewed
on that front that it has nothing to do with gear or diving practices.

Hell, I could take a pair of bungee wings with two inflators,
a Jersey Reel, a pony mounted between the doubles, a butt-mounted light,
independant doubles, carry no backup lights, or just about any other 
combination of "stroke" gear, then penetrate 20 minutes into the 'Doria 
100 times over, and I guarantee I'd come out on top, as would you, George.  
(as long as I ran a reel).

The problem isn't gear, although there's lots of room for
improvement for many people on that front.  The problem is that 
people are stupid, and the Andrea Doria holds some sort
of testosterone mystique that somehow holds the promise to compensate
for not getting laid on prom night, or whatever.  Of course,
the funny part is that it's not even all that great a wreck.

Screw it, that's Darwinism.  About 10 times as many people
die each year climbing extreme mountains.

-Will




 
> 
> Paltz, Art wrote:
> > 
> > I think you guys are missing the point.  Drift diving with or without a buoy
> > is very dangerous.  Heck, leaving the other divers on a ball is dangerous
> > when you are chasing the other divers.  If you had a chase boat maybe this
> > is an option but I don't see how you're going to drag the drifting divers
> > back to the main boat?  Having them drifting in a major shipping lane with
> > or without a chase boat is very dangerous.  It's much safer to have the
> > divers use proper equipment and a strong enough up-line to tie off to the
> > wreck and support the divers.  Like I said before, if a container ship can
> > run into a light tower siting up 150 feet, you think they are going to see
> > and steer around a float ball, lift bag or little chase boat?  Your best
> > option is to stay close to the boat.  Maybe the ship will see the dive boat
> > or can be called on the radio.  By the time an 800 foot container traveling
> > at 18 knots saw a float ball it would be too late to turn the ship.  I
> > really don't think the container ships sit there and scan the water with
> > binoculars miles in front of themselves looking for a float ball.  They rely
> > on their radar and if they are looking at it will steer to avoid a moored
> > dive boat.
> > 
> > A chase boat is a wonderful thing but I don't understand how you tow them
> > back to the dive boat?  If you were doing a drift dive and the boat was
> > following all the float balls, this is a very different situation.  I have
> > done this and although I don't like it, it's very effective for this type of
> > diving.  I don't think it works well in a 2 knot current with a moored dive
> > boat.  Being dragged at 2 knots against a 2 knot current back to the dive
> > boat is not my idea of an enjoyable deco hang.
> > 
> > Art.
> > 
> >                 -----Original Message-----
> >                 From:   kirvine@sa*.ne* [mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*]
> >                 Sent:   Friday, August 27, 1999 8:56 AM
> >                 To:     Scaleworks@ao*.co*
> >                 Cc:     ststev@un*.co*; Paltz, Art;
> > techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >                 Subject:        Re: Jersey Up Line
> > 
> >                 Release and put a buoy on the drifters, go back and stand by
> > the main
> >                 line. Those on the main line should have already been
> > checked for
> >                 problems. If you could get these guys to coordinate,
> > everyone could
> >                 drift when the current is moving, and everyone could sit
> > when it is not.
> > 
> >                 Scaleworks@ao*.co* wrote:
> >                 >
> >                 > In a message dated 99-08-27 06:18:21 EDT,
> > kirvine@sa*.ne* writes:
> >                 >
> >                 > << The main boat needs to be free
> >                 >  from the wreck line, or releasable with a pelican, like
> > the tuna
> >                 >  fishermen use when they get a big one on chumming.>>
> >                 >
> >                 > Standard on the boat I frequent most, Captain Janet can be
> > off the mooring in
> >                 > seconds. Should the dive boat chase down drifting divers
> > and leave anyone on
> >                 > the line or bottom with no support? The point that was
> > made here, was that
> >                 > there is no reason to tie off to a wreck in any situation
> > to do an emergency
> >                 > ascent, that drifting deco in an open ocean is
> > prefferable.
> >                 >
> >                 >  <<The Jersey up reel is one more accomodation to
farm
> > animal stupidity -
> >                 >  another peice of garbage used to compensate for doing it
> > wrong to start
> >                 >  with. Another clusterfuck waiting to happen, like bondage
> > wings. >>
> >                 >
> >                 > But why? What is this clusterfuck scenario you are
> > implying is waiting to
> >                 > happen with a jersey upline?  If you are on a deep wreck
> > in a team of 3, and
> >                 > are relying on your reel as an upline, are you going to
> > fit enough line on a
> >                 > reel to account for scope in the line from the current,
> > and that is strong
> >                 > enough to withstand possible chafing on the bottom, and
> > hold 3 divers in a
> >                 > current?
> >                 > What is the procedure you reccomend.?
> >                 >
> >                 > Kevin
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> 
> 
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> 
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]