Will, I am diving trimix by this defintion, Bill and Jarrod are diving
heliox. Mine always has some air on it. As you know, I do not have the
booster pump. Some of the other guys do, and they use heliox. 

Once Jarrod's operation gets in full swing, we may fill all of our stuff
there and then it will be heliox.

I know you are not advocating nitrogen, I am just thinking that the
willies is the reality of the situation more than any real effect. HPNS
they seem to solve by putting anesthetic in the gas , and of course
nitrogen is quite adequate as an anesthetic, and as you say, it does not
take much to do that part of the job, and no it does not produce a big
narcosis ( any mopre than what it takes to lose the 40 foot chess game),
and yes it apparently is necessary for some operations, but I have not
heard of any in modern times.

However, it is also more true that a slow ascent rate like 15 feet per
minute ( too slow for bounce diving )  beats this effect and requires no
anesthetic. My solution is to not do it at all.


William M. Smithers wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
> > No, it was fear. The next dive we did screwed up so badly that Casey
> > quit diving. I called the "jitters" dive after 3500 feet, and the next
> > dive we all ran out of gas three times - not too cool. Everyone was
> > fumbling with the bottles. After that we jacked the helium.
> 
> George, were you diving heliox, or was it trimix?  I have
> never had the problem with *any* trimix.
> 
> Despite the fact that I've said it repeatedly, it's obvious that
> you keep thinking I'm somehow advocating using a high N2 trimix.
> High N2 trimix is pointless and stupid.   What I'm talking
> about is Heliox.  No nitrogen.  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.  And
> it gives several people I know the speedy shakes when deep.
> It takes *very* little nitrogen to get rid of the shakes.  So
> little that narcosis isn't even worth discussing.
> 
> I dive a HeliAir7 in the RB for all dives over 130.
> That gives an END of 70ft at 300.  At 400, it's a 105ft END.
> 
> I dove heliox exclusively for awhile, and gave it up
> because of the jitters.  And by exclusively, I mean end-to-end
> on the dive, including deco.
> 
> The only time I dive heliox now is when doing multi-day repetetive
> *recreational* dives.  For that, I dive heliox one day, and
> Nitrox the next, to eliminate deep tissue gas buildup.
> 
> That's cost prohibitive on OC or SC, but with CC, it's just
> a few bucks worth of helium every other day.
> 
> -Will
> 
> 
> > In fact, when Casey came back, he thought we were still diving the lower
> > helium mixes and higher oxygen.
> >
> > JJ, Bill Mee and some of the others are actually diving pure heliox now
> > . I do not have a booster, so I am at the 70-80% zone running backed off
> > pressures in my rebreather supply bottles and my back tanks.
> >
> > We looked at all of the possibilities of what was going on with us, and
> > came to the conclusion that we needed to add more margin for error to
> > the dives to reduce the fear and add more helium to increase the clarity
> > and improve the deco results.
> >
> > I did some dives nine years ago, like when Gavin aned I put the end in
> > the Turner Sink syphon, where I intentionally used high nitrogen to calm
> > me down ( dove 15X40 ), but all it did was cause me to slow way down and
> > have screwups, like losing my pencils and lights and compass while
> > surveying, dropping them from my hand and never knowing it .
> >
> > We were diving just the two of us with no support, no backup scooters,
> > no safties, diving to thirds in a raging syphon at 295 on the roof
> > adding line. We got out of the water with no gas to our names. This is
> > the kind of thing that got Gavin and others to quit this sport.
> >
> > I changed all of that in the last few years, have done some several
> > hundred of these dives the easy way now, and can tell you that after
> > several hundred deep wreck and ocean dives and several hundred extreme
> > cave dives, it is feer, not "willies", and nitrogen is bullshit of the
> > worst order. Now we come back wtih full backtanks.
> >
> > Now we take away anything from the dive that is a concen and replace it
> > with more backup, do it right, and love it.
> >
> > Will, I am not afraid to think out loud, learn and progress. I stand in
> > stark contrast to eveyone else who fails to really go out and learn
> > anything. I do not need to take it to the point of a death to change,
> > and have actively done so for the last few years.
> >
> > My "willies" statement was pure bullshit , and I think we can all see
> > that now. We have this down to paint-by-nunmbers at WKPP, and we are
> > still trying to improve it and learn more.
> >
> > You will note that you never saw me ever recommmend any of the insanity
> > we did in the past, and in fact Gavin said that if I ever told anyone
> > about any of our personal dives, he would deny it. The problem was the
> > he and I were bad company for each other when there was line on the reel
> > and open cave in front of us. The reality is that we are both here by
> > the Grace of God only, and we both owe it to everyone else to tell the
> > truth and show how it really should be done. Also, the caves are so long
> > now that our past bullshit would not cut it .
> >
> > Now we "walk down and ( do) them all", so to speak.
> >
> > William M. Smithers wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Richard Pyle wrote:
> > > > > Will, this effect is called "fear" - what more of these guys need -
not
> > > > > pre hpns. It comes from the sudden realization that you are doing
> > > > > something very stupid, and then the environment becomes more
facinating
> > > > > than the fear.
> > > >
> > > > Ah ha! Just as I suspected.  You've never actually done a deep heliox
> > > > dive, have you....?  Just try a few - especially with fast descents.
> > > > You'll come around.
> > >
> > > Who knows, but here's the quote I was thinking of - from Sept. 3, 1997
> > >
> > > ltgmirvine@sa*.ne* <George Irvine> wrote:
> > > > narcosis in that case.  That side may be easier to explain that the
> > > > helium jitters. Otherwise, Casey told me I was acting jittery on a dive
> > > > that was routine and easy, so maybe it is there for real.
> > >
> > > -Will
> >
> >
> >


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