On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
> No, it was fear. The next dive we did screwed up so badly that Casey
> quit diving. I called the "jitters" dive after 3500 feet, and the next
> dive we all ran out of gas three times - not too cool. Everyone was
> fumbling with the bottles. After that we jacked the helium. 

George, were you diving heliox, or was it trimix?  I have
never had the problem with *any* trimix.

Despite the fact that I've said it repeatedly, it's obvious that 
you keep thinking I'm somehow advocating using a high N2 trimix.  
High N2 trimix is pointless and stupid.   What I'm talking
about is Heliox.  No nitrogen.  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.  And
it gives several people I know the speedy shakes when deep.
It takes *very* little nitrogen to get rid of the shakes.  So
little that narcosis isn't even worth discussing.

I dive a HeliAir7 in the RB for all dives over 130.  
That gives an END of 70ft at 300.  At 400, it's a 105ft END.

I dove heliox exclusively for awhile, and gave it up
because of the jitters.  And by exclusively, I mean end-to-end
on the dive, including deco.

The only time I dive heliox now is when doing multi-day repetetive
*recreational* dives.  For that, I dive heliox one day, and
Nitrox the next, to eliminate deep tissue gas buildup.

That's cost prohibitive on OC or SC, but with CC, it's just 
a few bucks worth of helium every other day.

-Will




 
> In fact, when Casey came back, he thought we were still diving the lower
> helium mixes and higher oxygen.
> 	
> JJ, Bill Mee and some of the others are actually diving pure heliox now
> . I do not have a booster, so I am at the 70-80% zone running backed off
> pressures in my rebreather supply bottles and my back tanks.
> 
> We looked at all of the possibilities of what was going on with us, and
> came to the conclusion that we needed to add more margin for error to
> the dives to reduce the fear and add more helium to increase the clarity
> and improve the deco results.
> 
> I did some dives nine years ago, like when Gavin aned I put the end in
> the Turner Sink syphon, where I intentionally used high nitrogen to calm
> me down ( dove 15X40 ), but all it did was cause me to slow way down and
> have screwups, like losing my pencils and lights and compass while
> surveying, dropping them from my hand and never knowing it .
> 
> We were diving just the two of us with no support, no backup scooters,
> no safties, diving to thirds in a raging syphon at 295 on the roof
> adding line. We got out of the water with no gas to our names. This is
> the kind of thing that got Gavin and others to quit this sport.
> 
> I changed all of that in the last few years, have done some several
> hundred of these dives the easy way now, and can tell you that after 
> several hundred deep wreck and ocean dives and several hundred extreme
> cave dives, it is feer, not "willies", and nitrogen is bullshit of the
> worst order. Now we come back wtih full backtanks.
> 
> Now we take away anything from the dive that is a concen and replace it
> with more backup, do it right, and love it. 
> 
> Will, I am not afraid to think out loud, learn and progress. I stand in
> stark contrast to eveyone else who fails to really go out and learn
> anything. I do not need to take it to the point of a death to change,
> and have actively done so for the last few years.
> 
> My "willies" statement was pure bullshit , and I think we can all see
> that now. We have this down to paint-by-nunmbers at WKPP, and we are
> still trying to improve it and learn more.
> 
> You will note that you never saw me ever recommmend any of the insanity
> we did in the past, and in fact Gavin said that if I ever told anyone
> about any of our personal dives, he would deny it. The problem was the
> he and I were bad company for each other when there was line on the reel
> and open cave in front of us. The reality is that we are both here by
> the Grace of God only, and we both owe it to everyone else to tell the
> truth and show how it really should be done. Also, the caves are so long
> now that our past bullshit would not cut it .
> 
> Now we "walk down and ( do) them all", so to speak. 
> 
> William M. Smithers wrote:
> > 
> > On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Richard Pyle wrote:
> > > > Will, this effect is called "fear" - what more of these guys need - not
> > > > pre hpns. It comes from the sudden realization that you are doing
> > > > something very stupid, and then the environment becomes more facinating
> > > > than the fear.
> > >
> > > Ah ha! Just as I suspected.  You've never actually done a deep heliox
> > > dive, have you....?  Just try a few - especially with fast descents.
> > > You'll come around.
> > 
> > Who knows, but here's the quote I was thinking of - from Sept. 3, 1997
> > 
> > ltgmirvine@sa*.ne* <George Irvine> wrote:
> > > narcosis in that case.  That side may be easier to explain that the
> > > helium jitters. Otherwise, Casey told me I was acting jittery on a dive
> > > that was routine and easy, so maybe it is there for real.
> > 
> > -Will
> 
> 
> 

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